Outboard resurgence.

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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Tuscany »

jhnmdahl wrote:If in salt with a sterndrive, definitely OceanX outdrive or similar, and no raw water cooling! Replacing the heat exchanger in a closed-loop cooling system is a pain, but not as much as a new engine.
Like I said, having a lot of time to weigh options is a great thing.
The downside is that having a lot of time to weigh options greatly complicates the decision. But my personality is to break everything down and research until my head hurts. It's hurting right now. :D
My particular issue is that I never thought I would be buying a new boat, so new technology and options are all new to me. I haven't boat shopped in 15 years, so there is a lot of catch up to do.
I made the mistake of checking out an R5, and then really messed up by showing it to my wife. She is the boat lover in my family.

If I were to build my dream, it would be an R7 with a 350 or bigger Merc outboard.
I'm pretty convinced an outboard is the way to go in all cases today, and especially true if there is a possibility of mixed fresh salt use.
So, it's either a 25SC, or an R7 as it sits going into the boat show in Toronto.


Question, is there a way to properly flush the heat exchanger on a cobalt equipped with a 380 VP?
Thanks.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by jhnmdahl »

Yep, hook a hose up to the hose fitting and let the engine idle once the hose is running, and the fresh water from the hose will flush out the salt water when moored. Of course you're still sitting in salt water, but that's hard to avoid...
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Skiingstrongman »

Get an R7 with a merc 380 big block with the sea core and close water cooled. Can't go wrong there.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

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No big block for me.
IMO, I think a BB will adversely affect resale in 5 years.
I could be wrong, but I doubt you will see a big block available in the near future when the same power rating, yet more efficient fuel consumption can be had, along with 270lbs of weight savings by going with the 380VP. And the VP comes with closed cooling.
Merc has to be working on something different to update that power segment. And I wouldn't be shocked if it's concentrating on outboards.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by jhnmdahl »

Considering decades-old technologies like variable valve timing have just started becoming common in sterndrives the last couple years, I think there's probably still some room for gains in both inboard and outboard efficiency. I did a similar analysis and went with a Volvo short block a few years ago (albeit in a 210), and am generally pleased that I did.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Skiingstrongman »

I have first hand experience with both. I have a 230 and my father has a 226. I have the 300hp merc small block and my father has the VP 7.4 300HP that was discontinued in 2000. The main difference is he can maintain speed no matter what his load is. The engine is all torque. He has about 5 mph more top end than me but the 226 is known to be a very fast hull but the biggest difference I notice is with a full load. It doesn't seem to make a difference for him whereas I lose about 4 mph with a full boat. That being said he uses a lot more gas at cruising speeds.

An example would be when I am slalom skiing my small block has a little trouble pulling me up (I'm a pretty heavy skier) but I've never had difficulty coming up on the big block.

I think it just depends on what your main use is. As John said time will tell if the smaller engine is far superior another 5 years will leave the big block obselete. My next boat will have a 380 no matter what.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Big Block Power »

I also have had both engines. In the future yes what they are coming up with will be better all around. But I don't think I use anymore gas from stop and go to cruising. If anything I think it's better. It didn't matter at all who or what was in the boat it just pulled. Full throttle different story. But no boats are good at full throttle. I will say the Volvo gxi series is better than the mag series from merc. And I'm a merc guy. I was highly disappointed in my 350 mag in my Cobalt 200 with a b3. I think props have allot to do with that also. I think Volvo did a better job with that also. But my 350 mag in my crownline was a rocket but it had a alpha drive and a great prop. Still now having a bbgxi it would be tough to give it up.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

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Guys, the VP 380 that I'm using for a comparison to the BB just came out a couple years ago, so unless you owned a new boat from 2014 or newer, you never owned it.
It's not the old 350, or 5.7L or random GM small block.
It's a 6.0L used in the GM 2500HD trucks.
Quicker, faster, more torque, faster response, much better fuel mileage and almost 300 lbs lighter.

http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopenta/na ... 380-C.aspx
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

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Tuscany wrote:Guys, the VP 380 that I'm using for a comparison to the BB just came out a couple years ago, so unless you owned a new boat from 2014 or newer, you never owned it.
It's not the old 350, or 5.7L or random GM small block.
It's a 6.0L used in the GM 2500HD trucks.
Quicker, faster, more torque, faster response, much better fuel mileage and almost 300 lbs lighter.

http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopenta/na ... 380-C.aspx

I absolutely realize this. Please don't be mistaken I am not trying to encourage nor discourage your decision. I'm simply trying to offer experienced unbiased results. I am not committed to merc or VP. I travel on a pretty small lake compared to the mid west guys so gas mileage is not much of a factor for me. I do a fair bit of toy towing so that's my primary deciding factor. Truth be told if I won the lotto tomorrow I would own a Formula FX5 with dual merc 430s. I live closer to the sound than the lake but I don't want to ski/wakeboard on the sound and I couldn't be bothered trying to convince my girlfriend to go in the ocean.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Tuscany »

No problem. If I go with a stern drive, my mind was made up months ago.
As far as experience, have you owned or driven the new VP 380 yet?
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Skiingstrongman »

Tuscany wrote:No problem. If I go with a stern drive, my mind was made up months ago.
As far as experience, have you owned or driven the new VP 380 yet?
Thanks.
I have not. I have driven the merc 380. The dealership, which conveniently is my home marina, has a R5 with the VP380 in it. I will make a stop in for the test drive event they have in May to give it a spin.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

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That's my point.
We all have experience, but as technology and engine platforms change, our prior experience means nothing.
I have zero experience with the new 6.0l or any new outboard choices.

The 502 GM is Flintstone technology, and as we currently see in the automotive marketplace, there is indeed a replacement for displacement. Variable valve timing, more precise fuel injection, lighter weight, better head technology and alloys. Etc.
Yes, the 8.2l sells today, but I wouldn't touch one because it'll be considered an unefficient and outdated platform that no one will want shortly.
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Big Block Power »

The 6.0 is old also has far as the auto industry goes. Not sure why they don't use the 6.2l. the problem is the auto is going to direct injection and that had its own set of valve problems. Also multi cam engines in auto. They don't like the rpms that marine use. People like reliability and that's why the good old 4.3 5.7 8.1 is still a good thing to go with. Until Volvo and merc's own engines prove reliable and as good of performance the good old small block and big block have there place. Technology is getting better it won't be long but I don't think anything we have right now people won't want. Like everything else it all costs more. With all the new electronics there using and new engines it's going to be a expensive hobby. I see the issues with today's new engine tech everyday. I hate to see what will happen to them in the marine industry. Mercury stem drive is way down and outboards are way up. Again they all have there place.
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Re: Outboard resurge

Post by Tuscany »

I own both of these engines today.
One in my GMC 2500hd, and the other in my wife's Yukon Denali.
I don't think the 6.0l reliability will enter into the equation. Cast iron blocks are reliable platforms.

My wife's DI 6.2l is a monster engine, but also complicated and aluminum. DI has had its reliability issues, thus the use of the older, simpler gen 1 6.2 for marine use.
The 6.0L (LS) is a proven high mileage, bulletproof design that is a fairly simple and reliable.
Automotive engines like the 8.2l and 6.0 are detuned in a major way for marine use. So, IMO, I don't see long term reliability and an issue at all.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_base ... ock_engine
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Re: Outboard resurgence.

Post by Tuscany »

To finish my post above while being distracted by watching the Bills get crushed by the Jets.
Boating seems to be no different from any other fuel consuming toy.
New boat power options have to be lighter, faster, quicker and more efficient. Thus the lighter, all cast VVT 6.0L stern option that IMO makes the big block obsolete.

To come full circle in this thread, it brings us right back to the original question.
Outboards are now getting to the point where they might be the better play now, and most probably the engine configuration of choice very soon.
Lighter, more efficient and definitely more versatile.
Imagine an R3 or R5 with a 350 outboard?
If the R5 were available with that engine....I think I would bite.
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