Thinking of converting from Surge to EOH

[bruceb58]

Sailer55330...where do you live?

[sailor55330]

Based on your signature about 1900 miles away—-minneapolis

[bruceb58]

Based on your signature about 1900 miles away—-minneapolis

Too bad! I would be happy to help you.

[sailor55330]

Much appreciated! If we were closer I’d take you up on it

[bruceb58]

Much appreciated! If we were closer I’d take you up on it

No problem doing a video call with you if you ever want to. I can give you a tour of my install. I went with a junction box for my 7 pin trailer connector. Makes things a little more manageable. You may have seen it on my R5 mods thread. The two heavy wires are form the seperate power form my truck. You won't have that if your truck is fine powering the unit

[sailor55330]

Thank you sir—that’s a great offer. Just seeing that junction box makes me squirm

[Cruiser64]

Thank you sir—that’s a great offer. Just seeing that junction box makes me squirm

Lol. I installed the Hydrostar system on mine and it's really not that hard. Had very easy to fallow step by step instructions. I called and talked with them before buying and even found out they make one in black to match my trailer. Very happy with customer service and product.

[DEcosse]

I contemplating same question as the original poster - I have a real distaste for the surge brakes, hate that kick in the tail it gives you when both applying and then releasing. It's just really disconcerting.
So from the money I got out of my old Cobalt (steel)Trailer sale I'm considering ivesting it in converting the new (to me) Aluminum trailer to EOH.
Now one of my concerns is on some reported lag times as of course it has to build some pressure from the pump as opposed to the instant pedal/booster in the pulling vehicle. Now some of what I have read and seen on YouTube in that regard is ridiculous (I've seen 5 seconds mentioned) and there is clearly something wrong if that is the order of delay anyone is experiencing. However most do say there is at least some tangible delay noticable.
So one of the contributors to that (I have read) is the effect of rubber brake lines and need for stellar stellar system bleeding. It appears to my eye that in all the images in this thread by the users they seem to have rubber lines and my question to those posters @Tuscany @CaptBob @bruceb58 (first please correct me if my image perception is wrong), what kind of delay (if any) do you think you might be experiencing? And do you think it might be improved? We all recognize the market for Braided Stainless covered Flexible Brake Hoses as performance enhancements for autos, to minimize the expansion vs std rubber hoses - and those are typically only 9-12" worth at each caliper. And they are pretty much a must-have on a motorcycle. So reasoning suggests that almost 40 FEET of rubber must surely experience some expansion and therby add to reduced/delayed pressure at the calipers.

As I'm planning my system, as well trying to decide which brand - Titan Brakeright or Hydrastar - should I be thinking about converting the rubber lines to Stainless? (they will pretty much have to be Stainless as my boat and trailer are for use in Salt Water). Of course Stainless Lines are not the easiest medium to work with, being difficult to bend and flare - but I would do it myself regardless.
I suppose the easy way to go initially is to install the EOH and then decide if I need the enhancement of the Solid Lines - and if nothing else, just defer the incremental cost and effort for a bit. Honestly though, they probably need replaced at this point anyway, but whether that should be stainless or rubber is the question. Is Thermoplastic a consideration - are they any better than rubber?
I would certainly welcome our valued contributors inputs on theory vs practical impact in this regard

Note to all regardless - be sure to keep up with maintenance of your Trailer's Hydraulics by replacing all the Fluid at least every 2 years - not simply bleeding but flushing/replacing the whole system. That's easy to overlook, but recognize brake fluid is hygroscopic and WILL get water in it. I have a MItyvac vaccuum brake bleeder system which makes the task easy. Speed-Bleeders are another good option for unassisted bleeding (ah - great memories however of helping my Dad when I was a kid, pumping the pedal to the up/down commands )

[bruceb58]

Rubber lines are fine....you don't need hard lines. The stainless steel wrapped lines are a gimmick. Neither of my trailers used hard metal lines.

The delay is not even perceptible. I have EOH on a boat trailer and a travel trailer.

I have the Dexter on one trailer and Titan on the other. They both perform similarly. Depending on the truck, you may/probably have to run a seperate power line through its own connector since the EOH unit can draw 30A to 40A which isn't going to happen through most 7 pin connectors.

You will love bleeding brakes with an EOH, the pump does all the work. I also change my brake fluid in all my vehicles every 2 to 3 years.

I am assuming you have disc brakes already? If you don't, I would definitely upgrade to them at the same time.

[DEcosse]

Yes, they are already discs on all 4 corners. I'm an EE and the electrical requirements are well understood and I will indeed run a suitable power connection. My head is also toying with the idea of an on-board battery for the power source (aside from the breakway power) - but that's probably just more fanciful thoughts.
Incidentally many don't seem to recognize you need the same gauge wire for 'ground' as well as the positive power - you can drop much voltage on the negative side if you don't suitably rate for the return current.
I can't agree that stainless wrapped lines are generally a gimmick, they do offer performance enhancement, certainly as rubber lines 'mature' with repeated use - not so much if comparing with brand new rubber. But rubber WILL be subject to getting softer and expansion with repeated use and aging. As I say, they are a must-have for my motorcycles.
I do accept your first-hand experience on your own trailers - however on my 9 yr old rubber lines, they may be due for replacement regardless and as-is may display more noticeably than yours might.

Does anyone have any experience with Thermoplastic lines? Googling or YouTube search yields very little information, other than sources for purchase.

[Titaniumboy]

I have a MItyvac vaccuum brake bleeder system which makes the task easy. Speed-Bleeders are another good option for unassisted bleeding (ah - great memories however of helping my Dad when I was a kid, pumping the pedal to the up/down commands )

I had a stuck caliper on my trailer disc brakes a couple of weekends ago. Overheated enough such that I could boil water on the hub. Replaced the Trailer Buddy caliper and plan to rebuild the overheated one over the winter. I tried to use my trusty Mityvac handheld vacuum pump solo, but wasted several hours chasing vacuum leaks at the bleeder screw, I finally threw in the towel and enlisted my wife to pump the surge brake cylinder to bleed the system. Any idea where I went so wrong with the Mityvac?

[bruceb58]

Yes, they are already discs on all 4 corners. I'm an EE and the electrical requirements are well understood and I will indeed run a suitable power connection. My head is also toying with the idea of an on-board battery for the power source (aside from the breakway power) - but that's probably just more fanciful thoughts.
Incidentally many don't seem to recognize you need the same gauge wire for 'ground' as well as the positive power - you can drop much voltage on the negative side if you don't suitably rate for the return current.
I can't agree that stainless wrapped lines are generally a gimmick, they do offer performance enhancement, certainly as rubber lines 'mature' with repeated use - not so much if comparing with brand new rubber. But rubber WILL be subject to getting softer and expansion with repeated use and aging. As I say, they are a must-have for my motorcycles.
I do accept your first-hand experience on your own trailers - however on my 9 yr old rubber lines, they may be due for replacement regardless and as-is may display more noticeably than yours might.

Does anyone have any experience with Thermoplastic lines? Googling or YouTube search yields very little information, other than sources for purchase.

On my travel trailer, I use my onboard battery as the power source but I have 560AH of lithium battery and solar panels replenishing them so no worries with that type of setup. Not sure I would do the same thing on a boat although you could possibly get by with the 7 pin replenishing the battery that way.

I am also an EE so I understand the power and wire sizing. I use a 6AWG wire coming from my vehicle battery through a circuit breaker. At the rear of the vehicle I use a 50A Anderson connector and the connector sits in a housing that I 3D printed. I use the same circuit for a 30A DC to DC converter for my travel trailer when needed.

You don't use a boat trailer enough to have to worry about the rubber lines aging from constant expansion...maybe from being in the sun when the boat isn't on the trailer. Rubber lines are rated at up 10,000PSI. A disc brake EOH unit can supply 1200PSI and that is at max braking effort which would only happen in a panic stop. Almost all travel trailer EOH systems use rubber lines if that tells you anything. My Harley had rubber lines on it. Brakes worked like the day I bought it when I sold it 25 years later.

[bruceb58]

I have a MItyvac vaccuum brake bleeder system which makes the task easy. Speed-Bleeders are another good option for unassisted bleeding (ah - great memories however of helping my Dad when I was a kid, pumping the pedal to the up/down commands )

I had a stuck caliper on my trailer disc brakes a couple of weekends ago. Overheated enough such that I could boil water on the hub. Replaced the Trailer Buddy caliper and plan to rebuild the overheated one over the winter. I tried to use my trusty Mityvac handheld vacuum pump solo, but wasted several hours chasing vacuum leaks at the bleeder screw, I finally threw in the towel and enlisted my wife to pump the surge brake cylinder to bleed the system. Any idea where I went so wrong with the Mityvac?

I have used vaccum pumps before...PITA as the bleeder screw leaks air around its threads. Just as easy to just pump the surge brake breakaway lever. On my pontoon trailer, I bought an adapter for my Motive brake pressure bleeder to pressurize the master cylinder and do it that way.

[DEcosse]

... I tried to use my trusty Mityvac handheld vacuum pump solo, but wasted several hours chasing vacuum leaks at the bleeder screw, I finally threw in the towel and enlisted my wife to pump the surge brake cylinder to bleed the system. Any idea where I went so wrong with the Mityvac?

Can't really say without more info or looking at it first-hand - my Mityvac is actually the compressor driven venturi vacuum type system, so quite different from the hand-held manual pump. Now one thing I did find one time was when bleeding some calipers with Speed Bleeders is that it just did not work with those at all (I hadn't even realized they were speed bleeders until scratching my head wondering what was going on!) The pressure of the spring is clearly greater than the vacuum and so it doesn't come off. It works as designed when high pressure applied to the input side, but the vaccum is only a limited force relatively. Took me a while and removal of the bleeder before I figured out what was going on! Is it possible @Titaniumboy that there were speed bleeders in the calipers?
I hadn't even thought about what @bruceb58 had mentioned about using the EOH pump to pressure bleed them - just have to activate the brake signal (although you might still need a helper for that).

[bruceb58]

I hadn't even thought about what @bruceb58 had mentioned about using the EOH pump to pressure bleed them - just have to activate the brake signal (although you might still need a helper for that).

On some units, you can just pull the breakaway cable so you can do it yourself. On the last EOH I installed(Dexter), they recommended not pulling the breakaway cable so I just had my wife tap on the brake pedal...still super easy! Just be careful you don't run out of brake fluid as it pumps super fast.

On all my cars, I use a Motive pressure bleeder so its a one man operation.