No Oil Pressure(?)

[groberts4]

Hey guys -
My 2006 262 started beeping like crazy, turns out the oil pressure gauge is reading zero. I checked the oil, topped it off (just inside the SAFE line, not overfilled). When I turn the key to power the oil pressure gauge moves from pegged left to 0#. So, the gauge is working - right? I had a guy run a test on the "sender" to see if there's pressure coming from the oil pan - nada.
The engine's a Volva Penta 8.1L. Does anyone have a clue what this might be, other than the obvious failed oil pump? I'm about to take it to the closest repair center and I've already been warned that this is one major repair - engine has to removed, etc.
Anything I can check or do on my own before I send it in?
Thanks!!

[billk2632]

So if you really had zero oil pressure, the engine would be making all kinds of bad noises - you don't mention that so I assume it is running and seems ok, just no oil pressure on the gauge. Sounds like the gauge is ok, usually a bad gauge or bad connection on the gauge will make it peg high - basically an open circuit on the gauge. I would suspect the sender - the first thing I would do is remove the sender and put a manual gauge on it, that way you really know if you have oil pressure or not.
Oil pumps, especially on older engines almost never fail.

[bruceb58]

the first thing I would do is remove the sender and put a manual gauge on it, that way you really know if you have oil pressure or not.

Exactly!!

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=oil+ressure+ ... _sb_noss_2

[groberts4]

Thanks guys, that's good advice and it's exactly what we did. My mechanic brought his tester over and it showed that there was no oil pressure from the pump. So, the sender's good and the gauge is good, and I'm running out of alternatives to having to replace the oil pump.
BTW, the engine is less than three years old. Our old one suffered multiple metal failures due to the major ice storm and power outage we had back in
February 2021. No power = no engine bay heater and I was screwed. Amazingly, Progressive paid for a brand new engine, exact replacement, and we only had to fork over the $1,000 deductible on a $15,000 engine. It was installed in March 2021 and unfortunately Volvo Penta engines only come with a 2 year warranty.

[billk2632]

And you are sure the mechanic removed the oil pressure sender and installed a mechanical gauge to check for oil pressure? Assume the engine is not making a bunch of noise? Then it should have some oil pressure - zero oil pressure and the motor would pretty much grenade in short order -- not that it solves your problem. I still find it hard to believe you have a bad oil pump, those things are mechanical, run off the camshaft and just never fail - well hardly ever. The fact this is a 3yr old engine makes that even harder to swallow.
One other thing I would check - when was the last time you changed the oil? What kind of filter? It's a long shot, but possible the bypass in the oil filter can fail or get clogged and cause low oil pressure. This was a particular problem with some AC Delco filters in the past. For the cost of an oil change I would do that.
Then if you are sure the mechanic tested oil pressure with a mechanical gauge in place of the sender, then I think you might be out of options -- if you are not 100% sure I would seek another opinion. That would be an expensive mistake from a missed diagnosis. And like you said it's a big job in that the engine will have to be removed to drop the oil pan -- oil pump sits on the front of the engine, but the pickup is in the oil pan which will have to be removed. The oil pump itself is inexpensive in the scope of the entire job.
Really sorry - especially on a basically new engine.

[groberts4]

billk - Thanks so much for the very complete response and suggestions. I will check with my mechanic again about how he ran the test, but he's been a Volvo guy for 20 years and is actually the guy who installed this engine when it was new (he used to work for the now-defunct marine repair shop). He's been working on this boat for years and is pretty sharp.
Now, the suggestion on oil change is a great one! When I pulled the dip stick the oil was black - turns out you're supposed to change the oil after 10 hours with a new engine, but nobody told me that so I never did. I'm going to call my mechanic right now and see if he can do the oil change with the boat in the lift, otherwise I gotta find somebody to tow me to a ramp and somebody ELSE to lend me a trailer!
Thanks again, I'll let you know what happens.

[CBO]

If that mechanic did not tell you or even offer to change the oil after the break in period, I would lose his number and run fast!

[jwill323]

And you are sure the mechanic removed the oil pressure sender and installed a mechanical gauge to check for oil pressure? Assume the engine is not making a bunch of noise? Then it should have some oil pressure - zero oil pressure and the motor would pretty much grenade in short order -- not that it solves your problem. I still find it hard to believe you have a bad oil pump, those things are mechanical, run off the camshaft and just never fail - well hardly ever. The fact this is a 3yr old engine makes that even harder to swallow.
One other thing I would check - when was the last time you changed the oil? What kind of filter? It's a long shot, but possible the bypass in the oil filter can fail or get clogged and cause low oil pressure. This was a particular problem with some AC Delco filters in the past. For the cost of an oil change I would do that.
Then if you are sure the mechanic tested oil pressure with a mechanical gauge in place of the sender, then I think you might be out of options -- if you are not 100% sure I would seek another opinion. That would be an expensive mistake from a missed diagnosis. And like you said it's a big job in that the engine will have to be removed to drop the oil pan -- oil pump sits on the front of the engine, but the pickup is in the oil pan which will have to be removed. The oil pump itself is inexpensive in the scope of the entire job.
Really sorry - especially on a basically new engine.

I know on a Merc the engine will shut down w/o oil pressure, I would assume the Volvo is the same. Did the engine shut down or just beep?

[groberts4]

jwill - The engine did not shut down, just beeped. We were able to drive home, fortunately only 100 yards.

All - The engine that was put in after the freeze was rebuilt by Jasper Marine. I talked to Jasper (great guys, very helpful) and they suggested that it might be the "oil pump drive". It sits in the V where normally a distributor would go, underneath the intake manifold. The guy said he's seen those fail, the gears can strip or the pin holding the gears on can fail, allowing them to spin and not move oil.
I gave this info to my mechanic and he said he didn't feel comfortable trying to fix something like this while the boat's in the lift. Neither he nor I have a trailer so I'm stuck going the "big guys", Rinker at Lakeshore. They signed me up for an appointment later this week and promptly sent me an invoice for $615 in anticipation of the work that will be needed.
So guys...does this "oil pump drive" sound like it could be the culprit? And if so, do you think I could get to it myself? I am moderately handy but no mechanic. Lastly, would you pay for a repair up front based on what the job is likely to entail?
Thanks again, I really appreciate all of your comments.

[billk2632]

Based on what I know about how GM V8 oil pumps work, this does sound plausible. Like I mentioned earlier, these oil pumps are mechanical and driven by the camshaft. The camshaft on an older pushrod (not overhead cam) engine sits under the intake in the bottom of the "V", the camshaft also drives the distributor. There has to be some type of gear off the cam that drives the oil pump. Getting the intake manifold off is somewhat involved, things like the fuel rail, distributor are in the way. You'll need new gaskets and know how to torque the manifold back down properly and re-install the distributor if it has to come out. I would say it's a moderate job -- no idea how to fix the oil pump once you are in there.
Me, I would probably try to do it, or at least really think about doing it.
I would be hesitant to pay for the job ahead of time, maybe a deposit if there were special order parts. The marina's I work with around here don't operate that way.
This is great news if it is the problem.

[billk2632]

Maybe try and get more information from Jasper - ie some diagrams or instructions on what you are looking for and a general idea of how to take the intake off. Also, I would not want to encourage you to do something dump and get in over your head (like I might do). If the shop that quoted you $615 knows what they are doing and that is a firm quote it might not be a bad deal - by the time you get this done, there is probably 4-5hrs labor. If you trust your mechanic, can you maybe rent or borrow a trailer?

[groberts4]

Thanks billk, I really appreciate all the feedback and advice. I decided it was just too big a job for an inexperienced mechanic like myself. I'm taking it in to Rinker, the largest dealer/service center on this lake. Apparently the $615 is an estimate and none of it is due up front. So, I should know by the end of this week what happened and how it was fixed. Crossing my fingers!
PS: Progressive Boat Insurance has now come through for me a second time. Three years ago they replaced the engine when their policy clearly stated that they did not insure against freezes. And now I'll be using their Sign & Glide, something that just came free with my policy and I barely remembered I had. So I'm getting a $250 tow across the lake to the shop for free - no deductible, nothing.
Jeez, I sound like a commercial. But still, when's the last time an insurance company gave you something for nothing?

[billk2632]

The more I thought about it, I think it is a pretty big job - I probably would regret getting into it! That's good about the cost being an estimate and not a pay up front deal. I also have Progressive, never had a claim though. I sure hope this is your problem.

[Holy Smokes]

Scratching my head to understand how your insurance gifted you a new engine since it wasn't winterized.

I couldn't imagine my insurance rates if I cooked two engines for simply not winterizing.

[billk2632]

Is there an update?