Which 220S?

(200, 210, 220, CS series)
drekar
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Which 220S?

Post by drekar »

Comparing a few boats: (all 220s)
2015 - zero off with VP 320
2017 - VP 300 with garmin screen
2020 - VP 280

All are similar in price (within 5K of each other).

So.... I like the idea of the quick drain of the new VP engines (I believe 2017). I've also heard the build quality went down when malibu bought cobalt. Most of this seems to be a general opinion and it seems there's not a lot of hard evidence but I'm opening to that considering.
With that in mind, I'm assuming the 2017 would still be under the old guard but the 2020 would for sure be under malibu.

Thoughts?
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by jhnmdahl »

The change in boat quality is real, but the amount of change you'll see in the same boat design between 2015 and 2020 probably isn't all that great - your best bet is probably to give each boat a thorough look-over and pick the one that has the fewest problems or flaws and feels right to you.

I like the old V8 (the 5.7L VP 300 and 320 are the same with a couple tweaks, while the 2017 likely has the newer 5.3L), but there's no question the V6 280's aluminum block and variable valve timing are nice performance-wise and it doesn't take the five minutes or so to drain that the old V8 does. We tow our boat with a 3L diesel Touareg, so the old saying "there's no replacement for displacement" seems less relevant than it once was.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by dustinm »

Im with John

Or you could step up to a 21 CS23?

I will also say that most of our malibu complaints arent until post 21
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by drekar »

So you would think it's not worth getting a 300? I've never driven the V6 280.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by jhnmdahl »

The V6-280 has variable valve timing and advanced fuel injection that the V8 doesn't, and is a bit lighter (903 vs 1022lb dry) due to its aluminum block and smaller overall size. Add the newer tech like direct port fuel injection, and I don't think I'd feel at all bad about having the V6 280 instead of the V8 300.

Here's a review of the engine in a Cobalt that may be interesting - note the torque curve and HP charts at the end in particular - pretty flat, and competitive with the old 5.7L V8-300 (I cant' find a V8-300 torque curve for comparison, but expect it to tail off just a bit less past 4200 rpm).

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Re: Which 220S?

Post by dustinm »

drekar wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:57 am So you would think it's not worth getting a 300? I've never driven the V6 280.
I agree with Johns reply above, again.

We have a 21 CS23 with the VP 300 V8. this engine is overkill. They are all limited somewhat on topend and if thats what you wanted you definitely wouldnt be looking into a Cobalt in the first place. So that leaves us with holeshot grunt - this VP300 is way too much. Its fun but I look back at our salesman telling us that they never sell more than the VP280 and I understand now, this isnt the 80's Merc 135s... we had that and I didnt want to be grossly underpowered again.

Of these boats you have selected I wouldnt let the engine be your deciding power, just condition.

PS. The VP280 will offer easy drain, which is nice to not have to go thru all the winterizing process i used to. That is one of the reasons we went as new as we did.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by drekar »

Thank you - that makes sense.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by drekar »

jhnmdahl wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:57 am The V6-280 has variable valve timing and advanced fuel injection that the V8 doesn't, and is a bit lighter (903 vs 1022lb dry) due to its aluminum block and smaller overall size. Add the newer tech like direct port fuel injection, and I don't think I'd feel at all bad about having the V6 280 instead of the V8 300.

Here's a review of the engine in a Cobalt that may be interesting - note the torque curve and HP charts at the end in particular - pretty flat, and competitive with the old 5.7L V8-300 (I cant' find a V8-300 torque curve for comparison, but expect it to tail off just a bit less past 4200 rpm).

Could you explain why the V8 vs the V6 from the same year (2017) wouldn't have the variable valve timing and advanced fuel injection? What year did Volvo release this update motor?
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by jhnmdahl »

There are two recent Volvo Penta V8-300 motors out there - the 5.7L (which the 2015 boat likely has, but tweaked a bit to become a V8-320) and the 5.3L (which the 2017 boat likely has). The 5.7L has a cast iron block, is a bit heavier, doesn't have direct port fuel injection but is fuel injected, and doesn't have the fast drain system. The 5.3L block is aluminum and has these upgrades.

The 5.3L block family of engines was announced in 2015 and included in 2016 models if memory serves right, but I'd verify by looking at the engine directly and seeing if it's a 5.7L or 5.3L if you're right in this ballpark for model years.

My 210 (22') has a detuned version of the same V8-300 5.7L with a duoprop outdrive, and responds exactly the same as the V8-300 up to about 4200 rpm, so I have lots of experience with that particular block. I've been in a similar boat with the V6-280, and there isn't much discernible difference in throttle response or apparent torque/power.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by drekar »

Do either of you know mechanically what VP is doing to get the extra horsepower out of the 4.3 or 5.3.
From the spec sheet, I'm showing the 4.3 can be (200, 250 and 280). If the 4.3 280 is operating at the top ending of the horsepower spectrum for the encasement, does that shorten the lifespan? Does it require premium fuel.

On the flip side of the the 5.3 can be 300 or 350.

Just trying to understand what is happening mechanically or with fuel to accomplish this horsepower increase.

Thank you.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by jhnmdahl »

Sometimes they'll change the cam and/or the throttle body, but with Volvo Penta in particular it's often just a different engine tune.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by dustinm »

drekar wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:36 am Do either of you know mechanically what VP is doing to get the extra horsepower out of the 4.3 or 5.3.
From the spec sheet, I'm showing the 4.3 can be (200, 250 and 280). If the 4.3 280 is operating at the top ending of the horsepower spectrum for the encasement, does that shorten the lifespan? Does it require premium fuel.

On the flip side of the the 5.3 can be 300 or 350.

Just trying to understand what is happening mechanically or with fuel to accomplish this horsepower increase.

Thank you.
Time spent at max RPM usually has a higher influence than total HP. Add the two together...., but this really only applies to race engines/boats

I will also say on a boat of this caliber care/storage have a much much higher impact on engine life than anything youll throw at it in this boat. I once bought an immaculate 18'r that was 25ish years old, everything was perfect except it had a missfire at WOT like when you want to pull a skier out. After a year of fiddling I found a cam lobe that wasnt as lifting as high as others. Upon disassembly I found rust on that lobe, it was caused by improper storage procedure of the prior short term owner. (no it was not any of the oil/cam bs of lately)

I do not know how they change the HP levels, because I am not going to try and change anything on a engine with a warranty so I never looked into it. I just bought what I thought was needed
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by GhostWhisperer »

I've written on this here on CS boats and can throw in a non-technical two cents. We ordered a CS22 with the Volvo 280 (at the recommendation of the sales crew) and she has plenty of grunt to pull skiers/tubes with the boat loaded for the day and gassed up. The power to weight ratio thing is real on the smaller boats. I think the duo prop is key, the boat runs and cuts corners like she's on rails. And I concur that this engine will run/cruise at "regular" speed and sip gas compared to a lot of other power plants. On a side note, back in 87 my parents ordered a new Celebrity 18 BR. They spec'd an OMC with the big 460 in it and that thing would skip down the lake like you threw hot fish grease on it, but would be squirrelly, and with all the weight in the stern from that block it porpoised so badly on plane that no one could keep a drink full in the bow. Too much weight/power for that hull in those days so it is worth careful consideration.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by IA_SD220S »

I’ve got a 2016 220s with the 300. It’s quite a bit of power. I open ours up going across the lake and it kind of zips a bit too much for me. I’m cautious when I pull tubers too. Having the easy drain would definitely be a plus, but buy the condition first is my advice.
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Re: Which 220S?

Post by Stagdad »

Thrilled with my 220s with the 5.3 300 v8. Never a want for power or holeshot. Oh and it sounds beautiful....
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