Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

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cmattj
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by cmattj »

NautiGirl wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:21 pm
As someone who has overloaded their F150 towing I am here for this!

Let me know when class starts.

As always Matt you have demonstrated you have forgotten more about many items that I could ever hope to know.

Unless we are talking Computers / IT / Bourbon or Turtles, then I may win? Maybe?
🤣 You win. Although we do see turtles that find the Neighbors pool instead of the Delta this time of year .

Your F150 is great, along with its GM and Ram buddies.
BBP Durango works.

The discussion will be how we go past the MFG design in angles that create shudders and unknown vibrations.
As the truck goes down in the rear.
The angle or direction of pinion stays in a close setting ( iE 2 degrees down).

But only to a point as leaf springs have determined pre angle to follow the angle as the truck sags.

Then it gets a launch shudder or slight vibration that is usually ignored at freeway speeds.
The loaded vibration is an issue on most light trucks as pinion bearings without a front housing support suffer.

Transmission output shafts are absorbing the vibration and creating wear and shortening shelf life on support bearings.

They days of burnt rear end covers aren’t there with synthetic fluids but the gear noise and movement in thrust is there.

We have a lot of hills here in the San Joaquin valley and the 1/2 ton is awesome in towing.
But the overloaded tongue drop combined with a 4-5 percent grade kills a lot of things no matter what they say it can pull.
5000 lb boat is 10,000 pounds on a 5 percent grade.

Ok so tomorrow we discuss how HD trucks rule in braking as the sensitivity of a 1/2 ton will abs engage you in most max loaded stops and send you in the worst possible moment. :lol:

I would also like to discuss Scotch vs Whiskey and why the blend????
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by liquid »

cmattj wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:11 pm :D
bruceb58 wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:18 pm
cmattj wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:13 pmThus the vehicle is actually becoming less supported at ride height and slowlllyyyy lowering itself.
It’s the compression and rebound characteristics that go flat and then.
Even more on the snubber than usual.
Stiff ride.

Just my .03 cents
That makes WAY more sense that the torsion bar getting stiffer.


Talked to a guy that works for GM the other day. He said torsion bars sag over time...they do not harden. He also says the main reason Ford and RAM use a solid front axle is because it's cheaper!
Yes. You got it Bruce.
As I just shared with you that GM engineers have explained the settling or sag as well.
It’s actually sag to stiff.

Like a bolt that’s is measured for stretch upon torquing it down. , it’s twist.
Then snap at its brittle or stiffest point.
As the torsion bar twists over time it is actually on the verge of breaking as it’s settled to max yield and can’t rebound anymore.
Cranking up the torsion bars give a hard ride for the same reason.
So yes metal will get stiff before it’s breaking point can’t be extended.

I really don’t know much about Ford and Ram costs .
I feel the ride quality is better in there HD truck as a coil over using a standard shock to rebound and compress is always a car ride.

Tomorrow we will discuss pinion angle change when overloading and driveshaft harmonics causing issues when towing .$$ :D

This is total hogwash CMatt. I don’t believe a word of it.

I’ve been told by people in the know that it’s gremlins. Everyone knows that American machinery has been plagued by gremlins since the First World War. Facts.

The stiffening is when more and more huddle together on the bar over time. Arms locked together and hunkering down forming a veritable wall of supernatural strength.

Also great bump! Can’t remember if BB or I started this thread but been a while since I posted a rig so here’s a new one:
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by cmattj »

liquid wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:06 pm The stiffening is when more and more huddle together on the bar over time. Arms locked together and hunkering down forming a veritable wall of supernatural strength.

Also great bump! Can’t remember if BB or I started this thread but been a while since I posted a rig so here’s a new one:
Baddass combo Liquid.

# believe
.
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by AsLan7 »

.

:lol: :lol:

Good to hear from you’all..,and nice rig Eric. 👍🏻

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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by liquid »

And here’s another one while we’re at it:
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by liquid »

AsLan7 wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:26 pm .

:lol: :lol:

Good to hear from you’all..,and nice rig Eric. 👍🏻

.
Heyo A7! Hope all is well buddy. Thank you as well
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by Tuscany »

cmattj wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:22 pm
NautiGirl wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:21 pm
As someone who has overloaded their F150 towing I am here for this!

Let me know when class starts.

As always Matt you have demonstrated you have forgotten more about many items that I could ever hope to know.

Unless we are talking Computers / IT / Bourbon or Turtles, then I may win? Maybe?
🤣 You win. Although we do see turtles that find the Neighbors pool instead of the Delta this time of year .

Your F150 is great, along with its GM and Ram buddies.
BBP Durango works.

The discussion will be how we go past the MFG design in angles that create shudders and unknown vibrations.
As the truck goes down in the rear.
The angle or direction of pinion stays in a close setting ( iE 2 degrees down).

But only to a point as leaf springs have determined pre angle to follow the angle as the truck sags.

Then it gets a launch shudder or slight vibration that is usually ignored at freeway speeds.
The loaded vibration is an issue on most light trucks as pinion bearings without a front housing support suffer.

Transmission output shafts are absorbing the vibration and creating wear and shortening shelf life on support bearings.

They days of burnt rear end covers aren’t there with synthetic fluids but the gear noise and movement in thrust is there.

We have a lot of hills here in the San Joaquin valley and the 1/2 ton is awesome in towing.
But the overloaded tongue drop combined with a 4-5 percent grade kills a lot of things no matter what they say it can pull.
5000 lb boat is 10,000 pounds on a 5 percent grade.

Ok so tomorrow we discuss how HD trucks rule in braking as the sensitivity of a 1/2 ton will abs engage you in most max loaded stops and send you in the worst possible moment. :lol:

I would also like to discuss Scotch vs Whiskey and why the blend????

Brakes, yes. The most overlooked and most important part of towing. I learned that lesson young. One of my first jobs while driving semi was hauling a dump trailer and on a dump trailer you can load roughly 100,000 pounds of weight with a NYS R permit… Making your gross 120,000+. Your first downhill ride will be the best experience of your life if you survive it lol. So having said that, when you start getting into heavyweight boat trailers, you must have a heavyweight truck for braking.

Getting back to front suspension, The only downside of a live axle such as Ford and ram is this… if you don’t have quality heavy duty shocks, you can get some chatter wear on the outside of your front tires. As far as ride, I’ll put my F350 … even with the 6000 pound spring plow package up front up against anything in the heavy duty class. The downside for buying a Ford is at the Upper trim levels are the most ridiculously expensive of all brands.
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by Tuscany »

The other thing I’m wondering about GM, if they’ve settled out the premature rusting issue?. Especially the frames. The frame under my gmc is looking suspect enough that I took it to Ziebart..I wash top and power wash under the frame a lot. I can’t imagine how bad it could be if I didn’t take care of it..
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by Ytmsn »

Well...
I've sold car auctions for 37 years and have sold thousands of Dodges, Fords and Chevys, and owned several of all of them. My last truck was a Chevy 2500 and the biggest POS I ever owned. Now I have a Platinum F-250 Diesel and freaking love it, and basically will only buy a Chevy to resell. And you can look out in the transport lot and see how many of the 3 are hooked up to a 53'car hauler. It's mostly. Fords....

And what Matt says about the sag and the suspension ride is spot on! I also own a 9y' Toyota Land Cruiser that I'm about to lift and learned about panhard bars. If the suspension is sagging too low from age and time and then the bars are too long it'll ride like crap, the same way guys lift something and don't install longer panhard bars. It'll ride horribly bad....
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by Tuscany »

Right now Ford knows they have the advantage. I ordered a new 23 Limited and it was never built because of a backlog. The MSRP sticker increased between my 2020 (90k)) and the 24 (105k) went up almost $15,000 for the exact spec truck, and you still can’t get it built.
GMs and Rams sitting on the lots begging for someone to buy them.
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by liquid »

Sounds like you all need some trustworthy and world-renowned British manufacturing.

My engineer friend says the train he pilots is filled with superior, award-winning vehicles from 🇬🇧.


The suspension fault warning I received this morning that I fixed by locking and unlocking then turning it off and on confirms they know what they’re doing over there.

No idea how it works but I suspect clouds.
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by NautiGirl »

cmattj wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:22 pm
NautiGirl wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:21 pm
As someone who has overloaded their F150 towing I am here for this!

Let me know when class starts.

As always Matt you have demonstrated you have forgotten more about many items that I could ever hope to know.

Unless we are talking Computers / IT / Bourbon or Turtles, then I may win? Maybe?
🤣 You win. Although we do see turtles that find the Neighbors pool instead of the Delta this time of year .

Your F150 is great, along with its GM and Ram buddies.
BBP Durango works.

The discussion will be how we go past the MFG design in angles that create shudders and unknown vibrations.
As the truck goes down in the rear.
The angle or direction of pinion stays in a close setting ( iE 2 degrees down).

But only to a point as leaf springs have determined pre angle to follow the angle as the truck sags.

Then it gets a launch shudder or slight vibration that is usually ignored at freeway speeds.
The loaded vibration is an issue on most light trucks as pinion bearings without a front housing support suffer.

Transmission output shafts are absorbing the vibration and creating wear and shortening shelf life on support bearings.

They days of burnt rear end covers aren’t there with synthetic fluids but the gear noise and movement in thrust is there.

We have a lot of hills here in the San Joaquin valley and the 1/2 ton is awesome in towing.
But the overloaded tongue drop combined with a 4-5 percent grade kills a lot of things no matter what they say it can pull.
5000 lb boat is 10,000 pounds on a 5 percent grade.

Ok so tomorrow we discuss how HD trucks rule in braking as the sensitivity of a 1/2 ton will abs engage you in most max loaded stops and send you in the worst possible moment. :lol:

I would also like to discuss Scotch vs Whiskey and why the blend????
Scotch vs Bourbon vs Whisky or Whiskey if you prefer.

Solid Topic.

Almost like Ford vs Dodge, or IFS vs Solid Axle, not really....but almost....and in some ways easier...let me explain....

You see unlike the truck wars its really pretty straight forward. All Bourbon and Scotch are Whisky but not all Whisky is Bourbon or Scotch. Like all Fords and Doges are trucks but not all trucks are Fords? Ok Maybe the analogy broke down there.

Confused yet?

Look at Jack Daniels - its a whisky but its not bourbon. Why you ask? Not because its made in TN - common rookie mistake - but because its charcoal filtered.

To quality as Bourbon Whisky we need:

A Mash Bill that is at least 51% Corn. The other 49% is generally a combo of Malted Barley / Rye / Wheat. Rye results in a spicier whiskey - think Knob Creek - Wheat produces a sweeter product think Makers or Weller.

It needs to age in a new charred oak barrel. Such a important requirement that Buffalo Trace is actually planting an oak tree forest. Most of the flavor comes from the oak and its where it gets its brown color so wood is important. Some distilleries are experimenting with oak varieties - the requirements are oak not a specific type of oak. For example Makers 46 is Makers Mark aged in French Oak barrels. Most stick to White Oak however.

It must be distilled to a max of 160 proof

It must be Barreled at a max of 125 proof

It must be bottled at a minimum of 80 proof.

Bourbon does not need to be made in Kentucky - however most is. It does have to be made in the US. The reason for Kentucky is our water. Since Bourbon cant be filtered you need to start with very clean water. Kentucky sits on a limestone aquifer - which produces great race horses with strong bones, and also very clean naturally filtered water.

It also must be aged for a minimum of 2 years. 2 years is super short - even the Beam White label I drank as a poor college kid is aged 4, most good bourbon's are 6 minimum to 10 - 12 maximum.

Finally, it can't be filtered and nothing can be added to it. So sorry, fireball, screwball peanut butter bourbon and even angels evny - which is very popular - are not really bourbon.

Now why the blend? Consistency. Aging bourbon is a science, so much so that some distilleries heat and cool the rick houses they age the barrels in. Others rely on natural temperature swings of the seasons. As the liquid heats and cools it is forced in and out of the oak barrels which is how it gets its flavor.

It's a natural process, so after 6 years a barrel at the top of the rick house will taste different than one at the bottom. Some distilleries rotate barrels, which is a huge PITA as each is holding 55 gallons of bourbon. Others dump say 25 barrels together some from the top some from the bottom and get a consistent flavor profile.

This is why things like small batch or single barrel bourbon are more expensive, its legit just one barrel that was aged to a flavor profile the master distiller liked.

I cant speak to Scotch, thats a YT thing, I will let him Chime in.
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Re:The Brits are Bangers

Post by cmattj »

liquid wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:48 am Sounds like you all need some trustworthy and world-renowned British manufacturing.

My engineer friend says the train he pilots is filled with superior, award-winning vehicles from 🇬🇧.


The suspension fault warning I received this morning that I fixed by locking and unlocking then turning it off and on confirms they know what they’re doing over there.

No idea how it works but I suspect clouds.
:D Actually the term "Global reset" is a respected term in the industry so your correct.

The performance Global Reset is next level. They disconnect the battery. Then on a single battery system they hold the positive and negative cable together for 30 seconds to power down all module voltage charged resisters.
Hook it up and let the factory software take over.

Kinda like turning the computer off then on. ( I.T stuff )
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Re: Re:The Brits are Bangers

Post by NautiGirl »

cmattj wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:03 pm
liquid wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:48 am Sounds like you all need some trustworthy and world-renowned British manufacturing.

My engineer friend says the train he pilots is filled with superior, award-winning vehicles from 🇬🇧.


The suspension fault warning I received this morning that I fixed by locking and unlocking then turning it off and on confirms they know what they’re doing over there.

No idea how it works but I suspect clouds.
:D Actually the term "Global reset" is a respected term in the industry so your correct.

The performance Global Reset is next level. They disconnect the battery. Then on a single battery system they hold the positive and negative cable together for 30 seconds to power down all module voltage charged resisters.
Hook it up and let the factory software take over.

Kinda like turning the computer off then on. ( I.T stuff )[/b


How dare you invade the one domain of knowledge I bring to this group.

How. Dare. You.

Leave the IT to team Natui.

K Thx.
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Re: Let's see your Tow rigs with your boat!

Post by cmattj »

NautiGirl wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:51 am
cmattj wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:22 pm
NautiGirl wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:21 pm
As someone who has overloaded their F150 towing I am here for this!

Let me know when class starts.

As always Matt you have demonstrated you have forgotten more about many items that I could ever hope to know.

Unless we are talking Computers / IT / Bourbon or Turtles, then I may win? Maybe?
🤣 You win. Although we do see turtles that find the Neighbors pool instead of the Delta this time of year .

Your F150 is great, along with its GM and Ram buddies.
BBP Durango works.

The discussion will be how we go past the MFG design in angles that create shudders and unknown vibrations.
As the truck goes down in the rear.
The angle or direction of pinion stays in a close setting ( iE 2 degrees down).

But only to a point as leaf springs have determined pre angle to follow the angle as the truck sags.

Then it gets a launch shudder or slight vibration that is usually ignored at freeway speeds.
The loaded vibration is an issue on most light trucks as pinion bearings without a front housing support suffer.

Transmission output shafts are absorbing the vibration and creating wear and shortening shelf life on support bearings.

They days of burnt rear end covers aren’t there with synthetic fluids but the gear noise and movement in thrust is there.

We have a lot of hills here in the San Joaquin valley and the 1/2 ton is awesome in towing.
But the overloaded tongue drop combined with a 4-5 percent grade kills a lot of things no matter what they say it can pull.
5000 lb boat is 10,000 pounds on a 5 percent grade.

Ok so tomorrow we discuss how HD trucks rule in braking as the sensitivity of a 1/2 ton will abs engage you in most max loaded stops and send you in the worst possible moment. :lol:

I would also like to discuss Scotch vs Whiskey and why the blend????
Scotch vs Bourbon vs Whisky or Whiskey if you prefer.

Solid Topic.

Almost like Ford vs Dodge, or IFS vs Solid Axle, not really....but almost....and in some ways easier...let me explain....

You see unlike the truck wars its really pretty straight forward. All Bourbon and Scotch are Whisky but not all Whisky is Bourbon or Scotch. Like all Fords and Doges are trucks but not all trucks are Fords? Ok Maybe the analogy broke down there.

Confused yet?

Look at Jack Daniels - its a whisky but its not bourbon. Why you ask? Not because its made in TN - common rookie mistake - but because its charcoal filtered.

To quality as Bourbon Whisky we need:

A Mash Bill that is at least 51% Corn. The other 49% is generally a combo of Malted Barley / Rye / Wheat. Rye results in a spicier whiskey - think Knob Creek - Wheat produces a sweeter product think Makers or Weller.

It needs to age in a new charred oak barrel. Such a important requirement that Buffalo Trace is actually planting an oak tree forest. Most of the flavor comes from the oak and its where it gets its brown color so wood is important. Some distilleries are experimenting with oak varieties - the requirements are oak not a specific type of oak. For example Makers 46 is Makers Mark aged in French Oak barrels. Most stick to White Oak however.

It must be distilled to a max of 160 proof

It must be Barreled at a max of 125 proof

It must be bottled at a minimum of 80 proof.

Bourbon does not need to be made in Kentucky - however most is. It does have to be made in the US. The reason for Kentucky is our water. Since Bourbon cant be filtered you need to start with very clean water. Kentucky sits on a limestone aquifer - which produces great race horses with strong bones, and also very clean naturally filtered water.

It also must be aged for a minimum of 2 years. 2 years is super short - even the Beam White label I drank as a poor college kid is aged 4, most good bourbon's are 6 minimum to 10 - 12 maximum.

Finally, it can't be filtered and nothing can be added to it. So sorry, fireball, screwball peanut butter bourbon and even angels evny - which is very popular - are not really bourbon.

Now why the blend? Consistency. Aging bourbon is a science, so much so that some distilleries heat and cool the rick houses they age the barrels in. Others rely on natural temperature swings of the seasons. As the liquid heats and cools it is forced in and out of the oak barrels which is how it gets its flavor.

It's a natural process, so after 6 years a barrel at the top of the rick house will taste different than one at the bottom. Some distilleries rotate barrels, which is a huge PITA as each is holding 55 gallons of bourbon. Others dump say 25 barrels together some from the top some from the bottom and get a consistent flavor profile.

This is why things like small batch or single barrel bourbon are more expensive, its legit just one barrel that was aged to a flavor profile the master distiller liked.

I cant speak to Scotch, thats a YT thing, I will let him Chime in.
Wow that was a wonderful story line.... as I felt I was touring a Distillery factory with you! I even pictured two guys named Melvin and Bubba mixing barrels. Awesome!


Ok finally an answer that I can paint in my head. The fact you did not need an engineer to console with gives me doubts, but I can see the path you made in the explanation.
I feel you disapprove of flavored whiskeys. I would understand
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