262 Bilge Pump Wiring

[KP01]

Went about troubleshooting my bilge pump today on my 2001 262. The bilge pump is exceptionally important due to the fact I bring in 1-2 gallons of water in one day at the lake (this will probably be my next thread). When I flipped the switch, nothing happened, no light on the dash. Breaker not tripped. To verify operation of breaker, checked voltage on output of breaker. Meter showed 9.2 vdc. Verified i had good contact on the terminal of the breaker-same results. Had the same voltages on the input side of the circuit breaker. For comparison, others were around 12.6. Ended up finding the other end of the wire that feeds the breaker. It comes out of the bottom of the perko battery switch (constantly hot regardless of perko switch position). There is a glass fuse holder inline on that wire approx 3 inches from the switch(I can post pics, but its just a fuse holder). Found the fuse to to be broken. Fuse element was fine, but the metal end cap was not attached to the fuse anymore. It was still making enough contact to allow some voltage, but not enough to handle any kind of load. I replaced the fuse, and everything is working fine.

The reason for my post is 2-fold:
1) to let others know about this fuse (I may be the only one who didn't know about it)
2) to confirm this fuse is needed. I keep going back and forth on this in my mind. The circuit is protected by the breaker, but being that the wire is always hot (regardless of battery switch position), it may warrant the redundant protection. The breaker protects the circuit, but the fuse would be protection in the event of a shorted wire between the battery and the breaker.

I would value the brains of this site's input on this. I don't want another point of failure for the bilge pump, the fuse is in a place that is inconvenient and can get wet. I think this is what led to the issue I had. I also don't want to burn my boat down. I will anxiously await the ensuing brilliance!

[Bobo87]

Very interesting KP. Is it possible you could move the fuse slightly so it might be more convenient to view/change and hopefully put it in a dryer spot? This way you keep the protection but don’t have difficulty monitoring. Just a thought. This was my approach when I installed a second battery in my boat with the ACR which required adding some fuses.

[KP01]

I thought about that. I’m not sure if the wire is coming from the Perkio switch or directly from the battery. If I was to relocate it, the only option if it’s coming straight from the battery is to move it closer to the battery- which is under the sun deck. I don’t like the inaccessibility of that. If it’s coming from the Perko, then this is about the only place you can get to the wire until it’s at the breaker panel. In the pic, the wire comes out from under the switch, goes through the fuse, then a plug, then loops back down.

[nolaboater99]

KP, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying you have a wire from the battery switch, through a fuse, through a breaker, to the bilge pump? If that is the case....don't a fuse and a breaker perform the same function?

If I owned a boat your size I would have 2 bilge pumps. One wired directly to the battery (fused with float switch) and the other wired to operate when the battery is on. This one would have a float switch as well a manual switch at the instrument panel. But I said float switch and I no longer use float switches, I exclusively use Water Witch bilge pump switches. https://waterwitchinc.com/bilge-switches/ Float switches suck, fail and are generally unreliable. The Water Witch has no moving parts and I had four of them in my last boat for almost 8 years with no issues. I have this exact setup in my '85 23" Cobalt.

If you leave your boat in the water for any period you need this setup.
Shawn

[KP01]

Nola, the wiring you described is correct. The only advantage of the fuse is it will kill power to all of the wire, whereas the circuit breaker would only kill power from the helm back to the pump. If the wire were to chafe enroute to the helm from the battery, the fuse would protect from a short (and potential fire) and the breaker would not. This is the ONLY reason I can figure for the fuse.

As to the second bilge pump, I’m way ahead of you on that. Waiting on parts. Until then (and after) I have a manual one. You know the old expression, “the fastest bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket”.

I was reading your rebuild thread earlier today (awesome job BTW) and saw the water switch you are referring to. Looking into them. I have to at least try one- floats are horrible in a bilge.

I’m in the NOLA area often. I have family in Covington, and go to NOLA for work occasionally. I would love a peek at that classy machine of yours next time I’m there!

[AsLan7]

.
Great post KP01.


A fuse or circuit breaker is installed at the beginning of the circuit to provide "circuit protection" to the wire(s). It's not there to protect the pump ( although it indirectly does by killing power to the pump if the pump malfunctions and begins to draw more amperage than the wires can handle by blowing the fuse)

Without circuit protection, a jammed or shorted pump or shorted wiring will overheat the wire, burn the insulation off, and possibly set the boat on fire.

ABYC and USCG require such circuit protection in all electrical circuits on boats except for the starter circuit (there's a reason for this exception).

Your fuse protects that hot battery positive (+) side wiring from the battery to the pump which is necessary for AUTOMATIC operation. This automatic feature is always wired to the hot battery so your boat won’t take on water and sink even when the battery switch is off. Thus this side needs to be protected ...ie via a fuse.

The circuit breaker protects the other positive side wiring to the helm for manual operation using the switch.

Hopefully the diagram below will help. (Yours is basically the same with possibly one exception. It’s hard to tell from your pic, but your automatic positive wiring may connect to the hot side of the Perko switch instead of directly to the battery as seen below )

.

[KP01]

Of course! That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the info (and the beautiful illustration). The wiring must be slightly different as the manual switch is also fed from the fuse and works regardless of Perko position. With your inspiration, Aslan, I have created a diagram (MS Paint sux). Let me know if you guys think it is incorrect, and more importantly, where in the world could the float switch wire be connected?

[nolaboater99]

So now I understand what you are trying to do and there is an easier way to do it.

Bilge Pump Switch2.jpg

My last boat was 52' Motor Yacht. The boat had 4 bilge pumps, 4 of the Water Witch switches and 3 of these switches in a panel I made. (One pump was wired directly to the batteries) They worked perfectly. When in "Auto" the pump worked from the Water Witch. The "Manual" side is a momentary on so the pump only ran when I held the switch down.

[nolaboater99]

Nola, the wiring you described is correct. The only advantage of the fuse is it will kill power to all of the wire, whereas the circuit breaker would only kill power from the helm back to the pump. If the wire were to chafe enroute to the helm from the battery, the fuse would protect from a short (and potential fire) and the breaker would not. This is the ONLY reason I can figure for the fuse.

As to the second bilge pump, I’m way ahead of you on that. Waiting on parts. Until then (and after) I have a manual one. You know the old expression, “the fastest bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket”.

I was reading your rebuild thread earlier today (awesome job BTW) and saw the water switch you are referring to. Looking into them. I have to at least try one- floats are horrible in a bilge.

I’m in the NOLA area often. I have family in Covington, and go to NOLA for work occasionally. I would love a peek at that classy machine of yours next time I’m there!

Thanks for the compliments. The Water Witch is very cool. It works through conductivity of the water. There are also delays built in to prevent the pump from cycling too much.

Let me know next time you are coming via Private Message and I will share contact info. Covington is a great town. We moved here 2 years ago from California. My wife grew up here and is an LSU Alum so it was a homecoming of sorts for her.

If you read my post you know the boat is in the shop. I leave for a week on the 26th and don't return until the 3rd of August. The boat should be finished by then and back in the water on the 4th or 5th. I have a slip at Salty's Marina in Madisonville. Have you ever attended the Madisonville Wooden Boat Festival? This year it is October 14-15. Let me know and we can go up the Tchefuncte or maybe to Mittendorp's or the Prop Shop. I would love to take you for a ride.
Shawn

[KP01]

Nola, I'm not trying to wire up the bilge pump (I will be installing a secondary later, though), I'm trying to figure out the factory wiring for the existing one. With the light shed by Aslan, I think the schematic I drew is accurate. The 'fuse feeding a circuit breaker' thing had me stumped, but now, with the exception of knowing the location of the float switch wiring termination (see diagram), I think we have it.

I agree that the switch you showed would be simple and easy to do. I will probably use something like that in the engine compartment (left on auto, wired to the water witch) with the secondary bilge pump that will be installed. As this will be a backup/emergency unit, it will be wired straight from the other battery (with a circuit breaker, of course) and no need to run wires forward to the helm and back.

I have been to Madisonville a few times(love the houses there) but have never been to the boat festival. Sounds intriguing. There used to be a restaurant there called Friends, or Neighbors, or something like that. It was really good. I don't know if there is a bad restaurant within 100 miles of you. If I lived there, I'd be even more short for my weight.

[SAB220]

2004 220

1. Shouldn't the "where this junction?" be before the Perko boat switch?
2. Also how would I wire the second pump then? (I assume just a fused connection to the battery since it's a backup pump)
3. Suggested Wire gage (22 awg) and amp for fuse? (maybe it will come with new pump...)
4. Comment for 262 - do you have access and how is the existing pump mounted (mine seems to be on a SS sheet metal plate ). Which begs the Q where do I mount the second pump? Since it would be a backup I could mount up higher then the bilge.

My boat is on a mooring a lot.

[nolaboater99]

Nola, I'm not trying to wire up the bilge pump (I will be installing a secondary later, though), I'm trying to figure out the factory wiring for the existing one. With the light shed by Aslan, I think the schematic I drew is accurate. The 'fuse feeding a circuit breaker' thing had me stumped, but now, with the exception of knowing the location of the float switch wiring termination (see diagram), I think we have it.

I agree that the switch you showed would be simple and easy to do. I will probably use something like that in the engine compartment (left on auto, wired to the water witch) with the secondary bilge pump that will be installed. As this will be a backup/emergency unit, it will be wired straight from the other battery (with a circuit breaker, of course) and no need to run wires forward to the helm and back.

I have been to Madisonville a few times(love the houses there) but have never been to the boat festival. Sounds intriguing. There used to be a restaurant there called Friends, or Neighbors, or something like that. It was really good. I don't know if there is a bad restaurant within 100 miles of you. If I lived there, I'd be even more short for my weight.

Friends used to be a good spot right on the river with a decent dock. Several years ago the old place burned and was torn down and a new 3-story structure built in it's place still as Friends. A couple of years ago Friends closed. Rumor is the owners lost interest and the place went under. The building is still there waiting for new owners but my understanding is the asking price is a bit high at $3 million and all offers below that have been rejected so it sits.

[KP01]

2004 220

1. Shouldn't the "where this junction?" be before the Perko boat switch?
2. Also how would I wire the second pump then? (I assume just a fused connection to the battery since it's a backup pump)
3. Suggested Wire gage (22 awg) and amp for fuse? (maybe it will come with new pump...)
4. Comment for 262 - do you have access and how is the existing pump mounted (mine seems to be on a SS sheet metal plate ). Which begs the Q where do I mount the second pump? Since it would be a backup I could mount up higher then the bilge.

My boat is on a mooring a lot.

1) it is. the perko plays no role in this circuit-it is just near the location of the fuse. The power for the pump is hooked to the incoming side of the perko (basically it’s wired directly to the battery). Both the manual and the float switch operate regardless of perko switch status. This IS the way it’s wired, I just don’t know where(physically) the one junction is located. This bugs me, and will until I find it.

2) secondary pump wired just like you said.

3)wire and fuse size completely depends on amp draw(see ohm’s law). Remember to use marine(tinned) wiring

4)existing pump is mounted on a plate under the motor on my boat too. I haven’t sorted the placement of my backup yet, but there is quite a lot of room to work with. I am planning on just trying to get it as low as possible/accessible.

[SAB220]

thanks for the reply, any second bilge pump needs to be below the starter (I know that's obvious but...). I'd like to move that SS plate so I have room for the oil drain hose.
An easy location for the second pump for me is directly below the flywheel out of the way from the 3-point drain system ... attach the pump to the bulkhead

[KP01]

SAB, you are giving me thoughts of a sweet, double pump bracket with a clear opening in the middle for the oil drain. This could get exciting!

More on item 2 above (how to wire the 2nd bilge). I think it would be wise to mount the second pump to battery #2 (assuming primary pump is wired to #1). This would also give redundancy to loss of charge of either battery. Of course, this causes me to think of something like http://unicont.com/marine_electronics/e ... s-120.html.

No! I have to resist the urge! I'm NOT turning this boat into a science experiment!