2019 R3 Vs 2019 R5 surf models

[cmattj]

Welcome also from California! ( The Delta).
As Tahoe does create a unique order for high elevation. It also uses outdrive gearing solely as its modifications. Your bigger is better is a must until..... you’re docking in wind.
As Tahoe can be tame in the morning it will be the lunch stops, and the mooring ball hookups that will be harder as you go big. Not to mention that sidewind when she goes on the trailer.
My boss went R7 surf and seeing the obstacles then went with a R5 as it felt sportier and was easier for him to maneuver as he doesn’t boat weekly. ( Boats get shorter the more you use them ).
So I’m suggesting the R5.
Easy to tow with a Half ton truck in those hills. Easy to park, and great power to weight in 6000 ft of elevation ...even with a 380hp.
Your resale will be best with the R5 for all those reasons as well over the R3.
Here’s The R5 ( left ) R7 surf ( right . Trailer is 4 inches taller in bunk height to ground for outdrive clearance).

Keep us posted! And congratulations going forward!
.

[Fin]

We are up in Seattle on Lake Washington, so far have had our 2019 R5 Surf out almost every weekend over the past 5 weeks.
I think Lake Washington conditions can get similar to Tahoe. That said, we went R5 for the ride and handling in chop/rolling wakes; along with other reasons that have been shared in this thread (resale/roomy interior/head/storage).
My almost 6 Y.O has asked to slow down in the heavy chop a couple times and cruising at 20-22 in the chop the boat is very comfortable.

[Tuscany]

The R3 is really a 21’ boat.
The R5 is really a 23; boat.
They count the swim platform as part of the boat.

IMO, Toss out resale differences between the two. Resale difference between the 3/5/7 are zero, and usually this point is skewed. Sure, size and options will bring more resale...because they brought you more purchase cost to begin with, so actual cash return becomes a wash. Truth be told, resale is easier when the price point is lower.

So, for me it boils down to room and ride.
There is a world of difference between the bow space of a 5 in comparison to a 3. Check your leg room. You will be spending a lot of hours in this space.
Two feet makes a huge ride difference, and the R series between the 3/5/7 is not much when considering what happens after the 7.

Lastly, consider the salesman’s opinion may also be skewed, depending on what particular inventory they want to move.

[Tuscany]

The R3 is really a 21’ boat.
The R5 is really a 23; boat.
They count the swim platform as part of the boat.

IMO, Toss out resale differences between the two. Resale difference between the 3/5/7 are zero, and usually this point is skewed. Sure, size and options will bring more resale...because they brought you more purchase cost to begin with, so actual cash return becomes a wash at best. Usually, high dollar option cost is not completely recoverable. Truth be told, resale is easier when the price point is lower.

So, for me it boils down to room and ride.
There is a world of difference between the bow space of a 5 in comparison to a 3. Check your leg room. You will be spending a lot of hours in this space.
Two feet makes a huge ride difference, and the R series "PRICE DIFFERENCE" between the 3/5/7 is not much when considering what happens after the 7.

Lastly, consider the salesman’s opinion may also be skewed, depending on what particular inventory they want to move.

Post correction..

[Ericaafedt]

Thanks all. I have postponed my purchase of the R3.
The information gained here was awesome. Great site and people here.
I really need to get on one of these boats in Tahoe.
We spent last summer on a 22ft 2004 master craft.
It was amazing. Until the Lake got a touch rough then became a little punishing.
Thanks again. I will check in again to see if there is any other advice.

[akorcovelos]

Keep in mind, any stern drive is going to be better than an inboard tow boat in rough water. The ability to trim and propulsion angle on a stern drive is what makes is better in bad water. Cobalt just happens to be the best at stern drive boats, so you’re on the right path!

[tgrace98]

Keep in mind, any stern drive is going to be better than an inboard tow boat in rough water. The ability to trim and propulsion angle on a stern drive is what makes is better in bad water. Cobalt just happens to be the best at stern drive boats, so you’re on the right path!

Tack on that cobalt has a deep deadrise on their boats and Kevlar in the hulls. They are wake crushers. My R7 rides like a caddy in rough water

[sailor55330]

I’ll add some thoughts as I have the R3. There’s no denying the R5 is bigger but when I sat in them side by side At the boat show to me, the difference in space was minimal. You do get the head on the r5 but other than tht you really gaining about 10 usable inches in the main area and about 10 inches in the bow. Yes a longer boat will theoretically handle better but imho it comes down to the captain. I’ll take a good captain in an r3 vs a fool in an r5 every time. Go to YouTube and search haul over pass in Florida and you see what I mean. The dry weight difference is minimal—about 300lbs according to the website. I’ve had mine in 3ft chop and never had a drop of water even hit the windshield. I’ve also been following a Malibu that was almost taking water over the bow on the same day. Both are great boats. For me we ultimately went with the r3 because we found a great deal and it was easier to store and trailer. Some day I may look at trading up but it will take a smokin deal. Let’s be clear the r3 is not a stepchild. They are both great boats

If you can drive them both on the same day. It’s a tough choice

[iboatmon]

Hi My name is Eric,
I am brand new to this site. Thank you for all of the posts. They have been very helpful.
My Wife and 4 year old daughter are wondering which boat would be best for Lake Tahoe. Lake Tahoe gets pretty rough at some time
most days. Is the R3 at 23'10" going to be big enough for those rough waters when we are coming back from a day on the boat.
Or should we consider an R5 which is only 22" longer. The interior of the R5 is hardly noticeably bigger than the R3.
We are relatively new to boating so please excuse any naivete in my writing.

We would reall appreciate any input on these two boats. We plan to keep this boat for a the long term.

Thank you,

Eric and Debbie

Maybe this is a little late to be helpful, but I have been boating on Lake Tahoe for 15 years. I had a 1998 Cobalt 252 (25') and it slammed us pretty hard during summer afternoon boat wake. I now have a 2013 Cobalt 273 (27') and it is so much better due to the extra weight and length. In my opinion, a 25-foot Cobalt is the smallest you should consider for Lake Tahoe, if you don't want to get bounced around too much, and one or two foot more feet makes a big difference. Just my two cents!

[Cobaltfan]

Hi My name is Eric,
I am brand new to this site. Thank you for all of the posts. They have been very helpful.
My Wife and 4 year old daughter are wondering which boat would be best for Lake Tahoe. Lake Tahoe gets pretty rough at some time
most days. Is the R3 at 23'10" going to be big enough for those rough waters when we are coming back from a day on the boat.
Or should we consider an R5 which is only 22" longer. The interior of the R5 is hardly noticeably bigger than the R3.
We are relatively new to boating so please excuse any naivete in my writing.

We would reall appreciate any input on these two boats. We plan to keep this boat for a the long term.

Thank you,

Eric and Debbie

Maybe this is a little late to be helpful, but I have been boating on Lake Tahoe for 15 years. I had a 1998 Cobalt 252 (25') and it slammed us pretty hard during summer afternoon boat wake. I now have a 2013 Cobalt 273 (27') and it is so much better due to the extra weight and length. In my opinion, a 25-foot Cobalt is the smallest you should consider for Lake Tahoe, if you don't want to get bounced around too much, and one or two foot more feet makes a big difference. Just my two cents!

I wish I had seen the original post earlier as well. Never, ever, underestimate Lake Tahoe conditions!

We started boating in Tahoe about 10 years ago and started with a 1982 18BR. It was a great boat to learn on, especially learning to deal with how big conditions can get on Tahoe. Even though technically our boat was "18 feet", it was more equivalent to a 210 today, with a true "deep vee" construction. We saw 2-3'+ conditions in that boat quite regularly and while we never felt in danger, it was certainly a bit nerve wracking in those conditions, nonetheless. After two+ seasons, we quickly learned we needed a bigger boat to be comfortable.

The last 7 seasons we spent on a 1998 220. That boat was absolutely amazing compared to the 18BR. It cruised quite comfortably in true 1' chop at nearly 30mph, compared to about 18mph in the 18BR. Because it didn't have the swim platform, it was a true 22' boat. That said, in those 7 years we got caught in 4'+ conditions about 3 times crossing the lake from the east to west in the late afternoon, unexpectedly. Again, while I never felt in danger, those 3 crossings were all "white knuckle" crossings; relatively safe, but definitely not comfortable!

Then, on our last day of boating last year in late September, the winds picked up in the late afternoon quite suddenly and severely, even though they weren't in the weather forecast. If you've boated in Tahoe, you know that if you are on the East side of the lake, you don't feel the wind sometimes until it's too late to cross back, so it's critical to check the forecast. And regardless of the forecast, on most days you NEED to leave the east side no later than 3pm to go back to West Shore just to be safe to cross the 12 miles back to the other side if you want to be comfortable.

Well of course, on our last day of the season we were having such a great time and it was still so calm at 3pm on the east side, we decided to wait until almost 5pm to cross. By that time, we could start to feel the wind and all of a sudden noticed big white caps all over the lake. Since I've never seen bigger waves than 4' crossing the lake, we packed up quick and headed out, expecting a rough crossing, but nothing dangerous. And everything was great until we were almost exactly half-way at 6 miles across (and almost 2000' deep!) and started to encounter the biggest swells I've ever seen on Tahoe. These were true 5-6' swells that were so big I had to slow to a crawl and as I would go down the backside of one wave coming towards us, because the waves were so close together, the bow would kiss the next wave on the way down and we were very very close to starting to take on water. I probably should have called the coast guard right there, but I also thought it was just as dangerous to defer my attention from driving, because the waves were so big if you got sideways or tried to go back the other direction we could have easily started to take on water. So I decided to just stay on course and relied on my experience of having learned on this lake in a much smaller boat and just took it really really slow. About 45 minutes later, we made it back fine, but it felt like 2 hours. My wife cried the entire way. I was also absolutely terrified, even though I tried to not show it on the outside. If the conditions were literally 1 or 2 inches bigger, I would have had to make a mayday call!

That experience was our deciding factor to get a bigger boat and go for an R5! The R5 freeboard is at least 2 feet higher than that 220 and is overall such a bigger and heavier boat, it's just not even comparable. The R7 is heavier, but the freeboard is the same and it's only 2' longer, so we decided that for going against big waves, it's not really going to help, in addition to being just heavier and harder to dock, tow, launch, etc.

After being out on the R5 6 times so far, even though we've only seen 1' chop so far, I am fully confident it would handle any conditions on the lake short of a full-on Red Flag forecast, in which case you wouldn't be going out anyway! It's literally night and day bigger in every respect than our 220. It feels literally twice as big in almost every respect. It can fit our 12' Paddleboard inside without impeding interior space and in the 220 the same paddle board took up every in of room inside down the middle of the boat.

We are SUPER impressed with the R5 and marvel at how big it is both on and off the water. It's truly a massive boat; we were side by side with an R7 the other day and had to double take to tell the difference. You are getting a little length and more weight with the R7, but that's it--I honestly don't think you'd have any advantage at all when the conditions get really rough.

Anyway, I hope this helps and good luck on your purchase if you haven't decided already! We love love love our R5! (BTW, ours only has the stock 300hp engine, and while I was really worried about the performance at altitude, I'm still getting a nearly instantaneous hole-shot (less than 3 seconds). I'm not thrilled about only 28mph at around 3900 rpms compared to the 7.4l big block we had in the 220 that would cruise at 30mph at 3,000rpm, but other than using a bit more gas, it definitely feels like it has more than enough power!

[BobRae99]

@Cobaltfan,

Thanks for sharing your story. What I take from your story is that on a lake that is predictable in terms of big wave conditions, its better to be in a bigger boat - which adds a margin of safety. I agree - to a point.

I boat on Lake Winnipeg which is one of North America's largest inland lakes (after the Great Lakes) and is quite shallow (average 30' depth). While it is rare to see 5 - 6' swells, we have seen them. The Coast Guard will typically issue a "small craft warning" in these conditions.

Many people have lost their lives boating on this lake. One of the more memorable was a group of 20 somethings who left the east side of the lake at dusk in rain and wind on a 21' bowrider headed 18 miles to our marina on the west side. It didn't take too long for the waves to fill the bow of the boat and the boat ultimately sank with the loss of life, except one strong swimmer who was able to make it the mile back to shore.

I've always respected what can happen on Lake Winnipeg and haven't ventured the 18 miles across from our marina to the one on the east side. I had a 210 last year and will have an R3 with more freeboard this summer. Still, I hesitate to cross. Your story reaffirms in my mind that regardless of boat size there is no substitute for experience and good judgement. Even in the larger R5, I'm sure your wife won't be in a hurry in small craft warning conditions to head across that lake again.

I'm glad you made it back safely and shared your experience on the forum.

BR

[Cobaltfan]

@Cobaltfan,

Thanks for sharing your story. What I take from your story is that on a lake that is predictable in terms of big wave conditions, its better to be in a bigger boat - which adds a margin of safety. I agree - to a point.

I boat on Lake Winnipeg which is one of North America's largest inland lakes (after the Great Lakes) and is quite shallow (average 30' depth). While it is rare to see 5 - 6' swells, we have seen them. The Coast Guard will typically issue a "small craft warning" in these conditions.

Many people have lost their lives boating on this lake. One of the more memorable was a group of 20 somethings who left the east side of the lake at dusk in rain and wind on a 21' bowrider headed 18 miles to our marina on the west side. It didn't take too long for the waves to fill the bow of the boat and the boat ultimately sank with the loss of life, except one strong swimmer who was able to make it the mile back to shore.

I've always respected what can happen on Lake Winnipeg and haven't ventured the 18 miles across from our marina to the one on the east side. I had a 210 last year and will have an R3 with more freeboard this summer. Still, I hesitate to cross. Your story reaffirms in my mind that regardless of boat size there is no substitute for experience and good judgement. Even in the larger R5, I'm sure your wife won't be in a hurry in small craft warning conditions to head across that lake again.

I'm glad you made it back safely and shared your experience on the forum.

BR

Hi Bob, wow, I just looked at a map and that is an absolutely massive lake indeed! It's very curious that the average depth is only 30'! It must freeze completely in the winter then? Lake Tahoe never freezes because it's too deep (2nd deepest lake in the US!), so the water stays very cold in the middle of the lake all year long; if you had to try and swim from a mile or two out, even in the middle of summer, hypothermia would likely take even the strongest of swimmers before you could make it back. The good thing is we actually have a US Coast Guard station on our lake, so boating fatalities are pretty rare given their ability to patrol a relatively small (by comparison) 22 mile by 12 mile lake.

Our goal is certainly never to be out in a small craft advisory, ever! And while relatively predictable, we did manage to still get caught in a few uncomfortable conditions over the years that would have been the equivalent to a small craft advisory, even though it wasn't in the forecast. It's very rare, but it does happen. That extra freeboard of the R series can literally be a life saver! For sure it won't really be any more comfortable crossing other than knowing you aren't as likely to take on water, but I'll take it! It's amazing how quickly even the largest of boats suddenly disappear on large bodies of water.

Nearly 90% of the boats you see on the north side of the lake in Tahoe are Cobalts--which speaks volumes to their ability to handle big water, whether they are an older 220 or 242 or the newer R series, etc!

Be safe everyone!

[BRDad]

This is a hugely helpful post as I consider and R3 vs R5 surf myself.

Mine is for a lake near Los Angeles called Big Bear lake. The max boat size allowed is 26’. Since it’s a small lake I have no need for the head. I’m leaning towards the R3 which seems like the perfect size.

Currently in a 21’ Monterey. I know the swim step in the R3 is a big part of the length but none the less it feels larger than my current 21’.

The boat will be towed down the hill each winter.

I know bigger is better but wondering if R5 is overkill for what in need.

Any thoughts?

Also I noticed someone posted about special order gear ratio for boats at altitude. Is that different than the 2.32?

Thanks!!

[Big Block Power]

2.32 is your high altitude ratio. There isn't much storage in the surf boat notated to the normal boat. So remove the Porta potie in the r5 and you gain the head for storage. Yes bigger is always better.

[carrera]

Great thread as I am now buying a boat for Tahoe (have my own buoy on west shore) and want a surf model for my boys. The story above about the afternoon trip across the lake made me nervous just reading it! Had a similar adventure years ago on a sailboat on SF Bay. Have driven a Mastercraft for years on a dedicated ski lake, but never a stern drive on a big lake...so I have much to learn.