Trading up to an A25 or R5 or R7? I have questions

[Ytmsn]

BB you fonespeak crackles me up

[Tuscany]

I think the A series represents what Cobalt has always been after for a customer base. Very distinctive and you know exactly what brand it is from a mile away.
A classic fat ride on the water. Cadillac Fleetwood-esq, fat wings making up the horizontal lines of the boat, the plaques on the side of the hull, built to attract the older generation like a Doctor, or a liar.. I mean lawyer...who could afford top shelf when Cobalt was establishing a quality name for themselves.

IMO. I think times are changing, and Cobalt is moving with it. Look at what the other boat builders are doing with styling. Very colorful, very fun looking and fast lines.
People with money to spend are becoming very young, and Cobalt has no other choice than to offer something "younger" looking. I'm 58, but my tastes are caught in a time warp. I like the young stuff with the fast lines. It's the vertical lines of the R series that knock me out.

Secure cash spenders has flipped. Today, it's the older generation who are poor, and its the tech savvy younger generation who has and are willing to spend the big money for a boat.

[Big Block Power]

BB you fonespeak crackles me up

You picking on me.I'm from the great north.

[Big Block Power]

I think the A series represents what Cobalt has always been after for a customer base. Very distinctive and you know exactly what brand it is from a mile away.
A classic fat ride on the water. Cadillac Fleetwood-esq, fat wings making up the horizontal lines of the boat, the plaques on the side of the hull, built to attract the older generation like a Doctor, or a liar.. I mean lawyer...who could afford top shelf when Cobalt was establishing a quality name for themselves.

IMO. I think times are changing, and Cobalt is moving with it. Look at what the other boat builders are doing with styling. Very colorful, very fun looking and fast lines.
People with money to spend are becoming very young, and Cobalt has no other choice than to offer something "younger" looking. I'm 58, but my tastes are caught in a time warp. I like the young stuff with the fast lines. It's the vertical lines of the R series that knock me out.

Secure cash spenders has flipped. Today, it's the older generation who are poor, and its the tech savvy younger generation who has and are willing to spend the big money for a boat.

Good points.
Let's bring back the baja colors of the 90's.lol
Yt wants pink & purple stripes on his new 262

[Skiingstrongman]

I think the A series represents what Cobalt has always been after for a customer base. Very distinctive and you know exactly what brand it is from a mile away.
A classic fat ride on the water. Cadillac Fleetwood-esq, fat wings making up the horizontal lines of the boat, the plaques on the side of the hull, built to attract the older generation like a Doctor, or a liar.. I mean lawyer...who could afford top shelf when Cobalt was establishing a quality name for themselves.

IMO. I think times are changing, and Cobalt is moving with it. Look at what the other boat builders are doing with styling. Very colorful, very fun looking and fast lines.
People with money to spend are becoming very young, and Cobalt has no other choice than to offer something "younger" looking. I'm 58, but my tastes are caught in a time warp. I like the young stuff with the fast lines. It's the vertical lines of the R series that knock me out.

Secure cash spenders has flipped. Today, it's the older generation who are poor, and its the tech savvy younger generation who has and are willing to spend the big money for a boat.

I completely agree with all of these points.

[Ytmsn]

Tusc you are spot on. In the auction industry we are seeing a huge shift in the market trends with the buyers, from real estate and equipment, collector cars and automobilia all the way down to household estates.

Old traditional tried and true methods and strategies are out the window, and new techniques are being used everyday.

Have you been inside the homes of very many young people nowdays? It's not uncommon to walk into a living room with nothing but a couch and big screen. That's IT. No other chairs, no tables, no lamps, pictures on the wall... it looks like they just moved in when they may have been living there 3 or 4 years.

And collections? Fahgetaboutit. What folks used to collect (glassware, china, cookie jars, antiques of any kind, precious moments, Hummel, etc. ) are not worth near what it used to be. Young folks just don't have any interest in that stuff anymore.

Personal collections, like salt shakers, lighters, nutcrackers, matchbooks... You might as well throw that stuff in the trash. Nobody will buy it anymore at an auction.


One of the things we see that is holding it's value and even going up is Oil and Gas Automobilia. The problem is the repo stuff is looking as good as the original, so you have to be careful.

Sorry for the hijack. It just got me to thinking about the market trends with the new buyers out there.

[AsLan7]

Fascinating YTMSN.
When you say:

"One of the things we see that is holding it's value and even going up is Oil and Gas Automobilia."

Give us some examples.

[Ytmsn]

Porcelain single or double face signs. Tin signs. Clocks. Service station displays. Neons. Gas pumps. Air meters. Stuff to display in a showroom, garage or man cave.

[AsLan7]

Porcelain single or double face signs. Tin signs. Clocks. Service station displays. Neons. Gas pumps. Air meters. Stuff to display in a showroom, garage or man cave.

Ahhh yes.

I like the older boating memorabilia. See any of that cross your way?

[Tuscany]

YT, lets hijack together!
IMHO,
As a business person, (which translates to a person who is utterly incapable or equipped to hold a job), I look at survival. And to survive, we MUST look at where we are going to be in 5-10 years. Tomorrow, or next year, those business moves were something that should have been planned in 2011.
Again, IMHO, the one business philosophy that NO one should fear is change.
I like the saying, "If it ain't broke, BREAK it".

Anyway, I learn more about the future by watching my kids, and their friends. I watch what matters to young people, what they eat and what they ask for. What is important to them now is exactly how their families will be raised in the coming years.
Both kids are in their 20's, and what they see and expect from life is so different that my old expectations.

YT is so correct. retail is changing, as well as values and their relationship to our standard buying habits.
For a quick example, in my business, I see the next generation food buyer wanting ONLY organic, antibiotic free, hormone free and only buying properly managed and cared for livestock. I give it 5 years before organics are the standard.
Later on, I also see meat on the decline, and plant based foods as the main course. No biggie to me, we just change with it.

So in the Cobalt sense, I see the A series as a dead man walking.. Not because it isn't beautiful, but it probably isn't sellable to the next Gen.
The 28 will be gone next year, or maybe the year after.
Look for Malibu to greatly influence Cobalt, and that's a good thing.
I don't think we will see any negativity. Cobalt will be brought into the future from the younger eyes of Malibu, and blending Cobalt's heritage into a package the next generation will actually want..

[liquid]

YT, lets hijack together!
IMHO,
As a business person, (which translates to a person who is utterly incapable or equipped to hold a job), I look at survival. And to survive, we MUST look at where we are going to be in 5-10 years. Tomorrow, or next year, those business moves were something that should have been planned in 2011.
Again, IMHO, the one business philosophy that NO one should fear is change.
I like the saying, "If it ain't broke, BREAK it".

Anyway, I learn more about the future by watching my kids, and their friends. I watch what matters to young people, what they eat and what they ask for. What is important to them now is exactly how their families will be raised in the coming years.
Both kids are in their 20's, and what they see and expect from life is so different that my old expectations.

YT is so correct. retail is changing, as well as values and their relationship to our standard buying habits.
For a quick example, in my business, I see the next generation food buyer wanting ONLY organic, antibiotic free, hormone free and only buying properly managed and cared for livestock. I give it 5 years before organics are the standard.
Later on, I also see meat on the decline, and plant based foods as the main course. No biggie to me, we just change with it.

So in the Cobalt sense, I see the A series as a dead man walking.. Not because it isn't beautiful, but it probably isn't sellable to the next Gen.
The 28 will be gone next year, or maybe the year after.
Look for Malibu to greatly influence Cobalt, and that's a good thing.
I don't think we will see any negativity. Cobalt will be brought into the future from the younger eyes of Malibu, and blending Cobalt's heritage into a package the next generation will actually want..

Think this is my cue. I've been meaning to chime in here as it is literally my job to understand these trends and I'll expound on this more once I'm at a keyboard instead of a phone.

I think tuscanys R7 is one of the baddest looking boats I've seen in a while... or ever.

If I'm buying tomorrow I'm buying a black forward R3 surf.

If I'm buying what I really want it's an A25. I maybe old fashioned and I'm sure we all agree I'm a bit "touched" but damn if it doesn't move a bit when I see an A.

T & Yt I think you're both spot on in your assessment & I wish to subscribe to both your newsletters.

You too nauti.

[Traveller14]

Ok so what is the purpose of the WSS (not Surf)? I've decided firmly against any surf model but I do like the graphics on them which is shared with the WSS. I can't see from the website what the difference is between it and a base R other than graphics and the tower and swim platform option are included in the base price. Also seems like brand confusion as they are pushing the Surf so hard then offering an almost identical looking model with conventional sterndrive and no ballast. Stupid question I guess but I'm really having trouble with the colour/graphic selection. Go sporty or go classic elegance?

[Tuscany]

One is set up for traditional tow rope water sports like water skiing or boarding.
The other is set up for the surf thing, and making that wave.

Graphics, strips, colors..no one can read your taste, but you..
If you were to ask my opinion, I don't do decals.. My tastes? Less is always more, but that doesn't mean my taste is right for someone else.

[nicksA25]

I imagine at this point somebody might stumble across this thread when considering buying a used A25 vs R5 or R7. Having owned two different A25's (2011 and 2018) as well as an R5 (2017) I'll offer my insight on the A25 vs R5.

We bought our first A25 in 2013. It was a 2011 with the Volvo-Penta 385HP motor. Last summer (August 2017) we decided to trade in for a new boat. After much deliberation between the A25, A28, R5, and R7, we decided to order a brand new 2018 A25 with the new Volvo-Penta 380 HP closed-cool aluminum small block. Our dealer told us that they were discontinuing the A25 and we had to get our order in soon before they shut down production. Due to some special circumstances we had an opportunity to unload our 2011 A25 fast, so we placed our order for the A25 and bought a 2017 R5 wit the Volvo-Penta 300 HP motor to use until our new A25 arrived in the spring.

The rationale our dealer told us (that was verified by another Cobalt dealer) was that the R5/R7 was cannibalizing the A25/A28 sales. The A-series is a much more expensive boat to produce (mostly due to the 5-piece hull) and sells for about 20-25% more money than the comparable R. Not enough buyers were interested in paying the premium for the A25's style and the hydraulic swim platform (more on that later) over the more basic R-series boats.

I'm going to offer my observations of the A25 compared to the R5 but much of this will hold true for the A28 vs the R7:

Exterior Style: The hull design on the A25 (and A28 for that matter) makes for the best looking runabout to ever hit the water in my opinion. What Cobalt was able to achieve with the 5-piece hull design was something you will probably never see again in a domestic runabout. The R3/R5/R7 styling is nothing to be ashamed of, but definitely is not anything as sexy as the A25/A28.

Interior: Both the A and R-series feature flip-backs for the port and rear seats allowing them to be forward facing seats or rear facing loungers. This is an awesome feature and back in 2012 when we were first shopping really set Cobalt apart from most of the competition. Although you are beginning to see more and more manufacturers offer flip back seats in their runabouts, I think Cobalts are still some of the best configured. The one slight difference between these two models is that the A25 has three positions with the addition of an all the way forward reclining position, opening up the entire sunpad.
The biggest difference between the A25 and R5 interior is that the R has a enclosed head. This is obviously a matter of preference but it's been my experience that most people use these boats for day boats and more times than not the enclosed head compartment gets used for storage and nothing else. That being said, when we did use the porta-potty when we had it because we had a toddler that was potty-training at the time.
Since the A25 doesn't have a head compartment, it has room for two glove boxes. One has a latching door and contains the stereo head unit with room for small items like keys and drink coozies. An open front glove box is positioned below that has a bunch or room and is a really handy catch all for things that you want handy but don't want to blow away. The R5 has a flip-up seat at on the port side to allow for the head compartment door to swing open also providing the port side cockpit passenger an elevated view if they wish.
There are slight differences in the seating layout between the two boats. In the A25 the rear bench does not connect to the cockpit's port side chase. This allows all of the rear bench passengers to sit with their feet on the ground, which may be more comfortable for adults, but makes for a shorter chaise. Because the port side chase is larger in the R5, the underseat compartment is larger. Also the jump seat behind the drivers seat is larger, which means the built in cooler is larger as well. These differences are a matter of preference, but overall we slightly preferred the interior layout of the R5 better because of the increased storage and layout.
In the bow, the A25 has flip outs that convert the fore-facing seats into a big horseshoe shaped bow seating arrangement. While a good idea in theory, the hinges on the flip outs are rather flimsy and after several years of being stepped on, one of the hinges in our 2011 A25 pulled out. On the R5 there is one seat on the starboard side where the passenger puts their feet on the ground. On the port side there is sort of a half-horseshoe arrangement where the seat is connected to the front bow cushion. This results in more storage space as well. All-in-all we liked the bow seating configuration of the R5 better.

Swim Platform: Along with the hull styling, this is the biggest difference between the A25 and R5. The A25 has the hydraulic swim platform while the R5 has the flip-out swim step. Make no doubt that the flip-out swim step is a great feature, probably the second best swim platform design on the market. But, the hydraulic swim platform is the number one. With the hydraulic platform you get infinite depth adjustability. You can lower it as little or as much as you want. This is great for little kids or if you boat with a dog. Also the hydraulic platform is much wider--stretching the entire width of the beam and goes deeper into the water. We routinely have 4 adults sitting on ours while we are anchored in the cove. It's goes deep enough in the water that you can even sit on it facing the fixed swim platform like a swim-up bar. The flip-out swim step on the R5 is about 30-40% narrower and can really only comfortably sit two. Another advantage of the hydraulic platform is that the boat won't start with the platform down. This is a safety feature but also keeps you from driving away with it in the down position. As several Cobalt owners at our dealership have learned the hard way, it's pretty easy to take off with the flip-down swim step down and will most often result in a costly replacement. One final advantage of the swim platform on the A25 is that there are trim pieces flanking the sides of the swim platform that accentuate the hull design but also provide a practical step when boarding from another boat or from the dock. As you can probably guess from my above description, we greatly prefer the hydraulic swim platform on the A25 and this feature was the driving force that convinced us to order a new A25 instead of an R5 or R7.
On a related note, with the A25 and A28 both being discontinued, the smallest Cobalt you can get the hydraulic platform on now is the R30 and I believe it was just added to the R30 as an option this year. It's my opinion that this exclusive feature will really help sustain resell value on the A25/A28.

Fit and finish: The R-series is a newer model line and it is obvious a few things are just better sorted out. One of those things is the seat hinges. On both our 2011 and 2018 A25's there are several seat hinges that just flip 100 or so degrees on a fixed hinge placing all the stress on the hinge mounting screws. Furthermore, two of these seat hinges mount to the seats at odd angles and simply won't last like a proper three-position hinge would. Worst of all, these two hinges are in the cockpit where the trash can and cooler are located--the two most often accessed compartments on the boat. This is one place Cobalt lags behind manufacturers like Formula--every seat hinge in a boat should be three-position. Another unaddressed issue on the A25 is that the compartment door where the stern walk through is doesn't clear the lock mechanism for the three position seat back. As a result, the fiberglass door gets scraped up. To our disappointment the 2018 had these same issues. For the most part, the R5 seat hinges were better but not perfect.
The R5 also has in-the-mold deck texture while the A25 has a spray-on style grit which isn't very grippy and is not nearly as refined as the in mold texture. Again, this is an unacceptable short cut on Cobalt's part. A boat the caliper of the A25 should have in-the-mold grip. For the newer A25's you could get the seadeck teak-look grip on the swim platform as an option, so that remediated the shortcoming somewhat.

So those are the highlights of my comparison. Like I mentioned, we ultimately opted for what we were told by our dealer is the last A25 to come off the assembly line mainly due to the exclusive hydraulic swim platform but also because we are the only A25 on our lake vs at least 30 R3/R5/R7's.

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[cmattj]

Hi I'm new to this group. I've read many threads and it's been very helpful.

Well Traveller.. hopefully your email will bring you back to this thread and give us an update.

I imagine at this point somebody might stumble across this thread when considering buying a used A25 vs R5 or R7. Having owned two different A25's (2011 and 2018) as well as an R5 (2017) I'll offer my insight on the A25 vs R5.


The rationale our dealer told us (that was verified by another Cobalt dealer) was that the R5/R7 was cannibalizing the A25/A28 sales. The A-series is a much more expensive boat to produce (mostly due to the 5-piece hull) and sells for about 20-25% more money than the comparable R. Not enough buyers were interested in paying the premium for the A25's style and the hydraulic swim platform (more on that later) over the more basic R-series boats.

I'm going to offer my observations of the A25 compared to the R5 but much of this will hold true for the A28 vs the R7:

Exterior Style: The hull design on the A25 (and A28 for that matter) makes for the best looking runabout to ever hit the water in my opinion. What Cobalt was able to achieve with the 5-piece hull design was something you will probably never see again in a domestic runabout. The R3/R5/R7 styling is nothing to be ashamed of, but definitely is not anything as sexy as the A25/A28.

Interior:
The biggest difference between the A25 and R5 interior is that the R has a enclosed head.
There are slight differences in the seating layout between the two boats. All-in-all we liked the bow seating configuration of the R5 better.

Swim Platform: It's my opinion that this exclusive feature will really help sustain resell value on the A25/A28.

Fit and finish: The R-series is a newer model line and it is obvious a few things are just better sorted out.

Nick. Thank you for the time spent in refreshing a thread with real life information.

I too believe that visual impact along with technology is worth the extra. After all . It’s needs to wow us year after year, and you found what makes you go..

“ That’s my Cobalt “