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Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:28 am
by tdryan
Krob1114 wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:21 am
1. Bud Light Lime is very refreshing in the hot sun.
2. Most threads here are eventually hi-jacked.
3. I didn't realize the third season of Jack Ryan was out.
Nice; rules to live by!
NautiWeasel wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:18 pm
To keep on topic... Beautiful boat.
Second, it sounds like based on your research of your actual truck, and an estimate of your tongue weight, you're probably going to be over payload. Unless of course it's just you, or you're like the gentleman stated above, and your wife weighs 0lbs. I'm a math guy too, and I've done all this work when figuring my capacities on my truck (because of towing my camper trailer). Weight distribution hitches do take some time to hook up, but they help a LOT as well. One other thing to consider is that the actual weight of a WDH (weight distribution hitch) will need to be subtracted from payload as well, and they typically weigh quite a bit. I have the Husky round bar, and it's over 100lbs total. The exception being the Andersen hitch, which performs great for most RV towers. I'm just not sure they work well with a boat??? Also keep in mind, the WDH isn't going to add what your can carry (payload). It will only make it so your towing vehicle will tow level (or close to it) and not sag in the rear.
Good luck on your new purchase, and now your newfound issue of towing it according to safety on paper...
Thank you!
Good call on the hitch addition to the payload. I'm going with the Andersen WDH, and the spec states "weighs than 60 lbs.," so that's an additional 60 lbs. of payload. Subtract 60 from 493 and that leaves 433 lbs. of payload. Subtract me (200 lbs.) and the Mrs. (100 lbs.), that leaves
133 lbs. for everything else (replace Coors Light with Bud Light Lime). Getting close on payload, but it does sound manageable. Thoughts?
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:02 pm
by NautiWeasel
tdryan wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:28 am
Krob1114 wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:21 am
1. Bud Light Lime is very refreshing in the hot sun.
2. Most threads here are eventually hi-jacked.
3. I didn't realize the third season of Jack Ryan was out.
Nice; rules to live by!
NautiWeasel wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:18 pm
To keep on topic... Beautiful boat.
Second, it sounds like based on your research of your actual truck, and an estimate of your tongue weight, you're probably going to be over payload. Unless of course it's just you, or you're like the gentleman stated above, and your wife weighs 0lbs. I'm a math guy too, and I've done all this work when figuring my capacities on my truck (because of towing my camper trailer). Weight distribution hitches do take some time to hook up, but they help a LOT as well. One other thing to consider is that the actual weight of a WDH (weight distribution hitch) will need to be subtracted from payload as well, and they typically weigh quite a bit. I have the Husky round bar, and it's over 100lbs total. The exception being the Andersen hitch, which performs great for most RV towers. I'm just not sure they work well with a boat??? Also keep in mind, the WDH isn't going to add what your can carry (payload). It will only make it so your towing vehicle will tow level (or close to it) and not sag in the rear.
Good luck on your new purchase, and now your newfound issue of towing it according to safety on paper...
Thank you!
Good call on the hitch addition to the payload. I'm going with the Andersen WDH, and the spec states "weighs than 60 lbs.," so that's an additional 60 lbs. of payload. Subtract 60 from 493 and that leaves 433 lbs. of payload. Subtract me (200 lbs.) and the Mrs. (100 lbs.), that leaves
133 lbs. for everything else (replace Coors Light with Bud Light Lime). Getting close on payload, but it does sound manageable. Thoughts?
If it were me, knowing my experience and capabilities of both my equipment (truck) and where I travel, I'd go for it. I go by the numbers, but more of a loose guide when it comes to payload weight. My truck is only 200lbs under total GVWR when I'm towing my camper, but under my payload by 300lbs or so. I can feel it when I'm getting going for sure, but I also know from experience to go slower, follow further behind, and plan ahead. To me, the difference between a few hundred lbs under, and maybe a few hundred over, is minimal. Obviously the trucks of today aren't going to break right at that number that is shows on the sticker. They build in a safety factor. The only real issues are 1. Do YOU feel comfortable/safe when driving close to your max Payload or GVWR, or a little over, and 2. If you get into an accident, will there be consequences from Johnny Law or the insurance company if you're a little over?
Look at it this way. If you're boating correctly, you'll be a lot lighter coming home from the lake than you are going to the lake, so you only have to worry about it one way right? LOL.
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:38 pm
by tdryan
NautiWeasel wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:02 pm
If it were me, knowing my experience and capabilities of both my equipment (truck) and where I travel, I'd go for it. I go by the numbers, but more of a loose guide when it comes to payload weight. My truck is only 200lbs under total GVWR when I'm towing my camper, but under my payload by 300lbs or so. I can feel it when I'm getting going for sure, but I also know from experience to go slower, follow further behind, and plan ahead. To me, the difference between a few hundred lbs under, and maybe a few hundred over, is minimal. Obviously the trucks of today aren't going to break right at that number that is shows on the sticker. They build in a safety factor. The only real issues are 1. Do YOU feel comfortable/safe when driving close to your max Payload or GVWR, or a little over, and 2. If you get into an accident, will there be consequences from Johnny Law or the insurance company if you're a little over?
Look at it this way. If you're boating correctly, you'll be a lot lighter coming home from the lake than you are going to the lake, so you only have to worry about it one way right? LOL.
This is the magic of engaged forums - folks weigh-in with real world experience and sound advice. Very much appreciated, Nauti!
I've done tooooonnnsss of research on this subject. There's a RAM TRX forum with another awesome and helpful group of forum members -
Drop hitch? What type of hitch do you use? | RAM TRX Forum. My gut (through research and forum member's solid input) tells me I'm comfortable with the payload math.
And just so we're clear, I'm not buying a new truck, so I'm going to make it work.
I'll definitely post pics of the rig and boat trailered up once Spring arrives.
Cheers!
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:34 pm
by sailor55330
Welcome and sharp looking boat-
One thing to be aware of is that from the picture, I see you have a swing tongue. Many trailer manufacturers will tell you NOT to use a WDH with a swing tongue....I know my manufacturer said it would void the warranty. I have no experience using one, but just something to consider.
I am surprised at the 1175 payload...my SUV has 1360 and it's considered fairly low. I'm sure the truck will be fine, but take a few miles to get comfortable with the combination. It sounds like it's the suspsension, so airbags may help stiffen it up if it squats a little to much--it won't change the payload though. What's the gear ratio in the rear end? That can make a big difference when towing.
Welcome to the forums!
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:16 pm
by dsthomas
I thought I also read somewhere on this forum that you shouldn't use a WDH with surge brakes??? Someone with more education about it than I will need to chime in to confirm that. But something that should be considered as well.
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:20 pm
by tdryan
sailor55330 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:34 pm
Many trailer manufacturers will tell you NOT to use a WDH with a swing tongue....
Thanks; I'll do some research on this.
sailor55330 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:34 pm
What's the gear ratio in the rear end? That can make a big difference when towing.
TRX rear gear ratio is 3.55.
dsthomas wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:16 pm
I thought I also read somewhere on this forum that you shouldn't use a WDH with surge brakes??? Someone with more education about it than I will need to chime in to confirm that. But something that should be considered as well.
Thanks; this is getting more technical than I expected!
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:06 am
by jhnmdahl
In my experience, you'll be happy with the 300hp if you have a dual prop outdrive (Bravo 3 or Volvo DP). engines, otudrives, and props are all more efficient at delivering torque to the water than boats from the last century, and peak HP numbers are becoming less important.
I agree you'll likely be content without a weight distributing hitch too, but I've never known anyone who got one who said they wished they hadn't either.
John
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:49 am
by tdryan
jhnmdahl wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:06 am
In my experience, you'll be happy with the 300hp if you have a dual prop outdrive (Bravo 3 or Volvo DP). engines, otudrives, and props are all more efficient at delivering torque to the water than boats from the last century, and peak HP numbers are becoming less important.
I agree you'll likely be content without a weight distributing hitch too, but I've never known anyone who got one who said they wished they hadn't either.
John
RE: Prop - I've searched my paperwork and Google. Nothing definitive, but I believe that I have a Duoprop drive. Pic 1 below is the actual prop. Pic 2 are what I believe to be the technical specs. Thanks for the feedback on your real world experiences.
RE: WDH - The Andersen WDH material states that you can use it with or without the distribution system, so a little trial and error is in order. Once I get to towing, I'll post feedback about the WDH. If you haven't seen the Andersen WDH, the following video is very informative -
Andersen Hitches Weight Distribution Hitch with ground-breaking Anti-Sway, Anti-Bounce.
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:12 pm
by AsLan7
tdryan wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:23 pm
I’ll be towing the R5 behind my Ram TRX and will likely go with the
Andersen WDH. Usage and performance feedback much appreciated.
.
Do you have a pic of your trailer Tdryan? ...specifically the tongue. In your first pic it appears you have a swing tongue which is normally not paired with hydraulic surge brakes. That being said, I have seen them paired together with a flexible hydraulic line.
Just want to make sure you are aware that you cannot use a weight distributing hitch with hydraulic surge brakes where the trailer tongue moves in and out during braking. Hard to see from your pic.
.
https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq/ca ... y-wd-hitch
.
Disregard if this has been covered already. Just jumping in.
.
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:12 pm
by bruceb58
You can use an equilizing hitch if it's a slide type like these:
https://www.equalizerhitch.com/
Capture88.JPG
However, a swinging tongue usually means you can't use this type either becuase it's not strong enough
You definitely can't use the Anderson since tightening the chains will push in the surge actuator.
https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq/ca ... y-wd-hitch
I wanted to use a WDH and I didn't want to take a chance with a surge unit so I converted my trailer to electric over hydraulic brakes.
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:20 pm
by Titaniumboy
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:49 pm
by bruceb58
I would be hesitant to use any with the chains on the bars that hook up to the trailer. That's the type I used to have on my old boat trailer and went with EOH.
EOH is the best of both worlds...hydraulic brakes so you can use discs and the the electric part where you can control the braking effort.
I now have two trailers with EOH and discs..the Cobalt trailer and now my travel trailer. Just installed a new Kodiak disc EOH system and canned the crappy electric drum brakes.
PXL_20221226_232522523 (1).jpg
My Cobalt trailer has UFP discs....I added a Brakerite EOH controller to it
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:59 pm
by bruceb58
tdryan wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 6:34 pmRam has a helpful utility on their website - Towing Capacity Guide - that takes a VIN, considers the vehicle's options, and outputs Towing and Payload capacities (snippet below). So, my capacities are:
- Max Payload: 1,175 lbs.
- Max Towing: 8,100 lbs.
Now some math... 6,825 lbs. x 0.10 = 682 lbs. of Trailer Tongue Weight.
The only way to determine your truck's payload is look at the sticker inside your door jamb. I have heard those RAM VIN lookups are often wrong.
Here is a picture of a RAM TRX payload sticker I found on the Web. Hard to read but it says 1371#
B10BD038-401E-4119-9E0B-4CC6FA07B053.jpeg
As far as tongue weight, this is my 2017 R5 with no fuel and very little gear in the boat measured with a Sherline scale(600 lbs). Depending on your trailer, yours may be different.
Typically, boats on tandem trailers are less than 10% tongue weight since they have a heavy engine in the rear. To compensate for that, they move the axles back compared to a travel trailer, for example. In any case, they are still stable with less than 10% since the center of gravity is in front of the axles.
PXL_20210111_194133652-453x604.jpg
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:19 pm
by bruceb58
BTW....the reason I opted for a WDH is that my 2018 F150 hitch is dead weight rated for 500# tongue and 5000# capacity. My tongue weight is 600#. The truck also drives much better with the WDH installed...way less front wheel wander.
I was going to just get a new hitch installed that was rated for more dead weight but all those hitches needed to be welded to the frame so I passed on that. Was cheaper to add a WDH
This is my hitch rating sticker on my 2018 F150 with Max Tow package.
PXL_20230112_032513857.jpg
Re: First Time Cobalt Owner (and Boater), Long Time Admirer
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:41 pm
by tdryan
Hey Bruce - thanks for the input. Let me unravel these threads some...
AsLan7 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:12 pm
Do you have a pic of your trailer Tdryan? ...specifically the tongue. In your first pic it appears you have a swing tongue which is normally not paired with hydraulic surge brakes. That being said, I have seen them paired together with a flexible hydraulic line.
Just want to make sure you are aware that you cannot use a weight distributing hitch with hydraulic surge brakes where the trailer tongue moves in and out during braking. Hard to see from your pic.
https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq/ca ... y-wd-hitch
Below is a pic of the trailer tongue. The trailer has hydraulic disc brakes on all four wheels. Sounds like I'm clear from a braking with WDH perspective. Agree?
Is electric over hydraulic brakes the same thing and hydraulic disk brakes?
bruceb58 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:12 pm
However, a swinging tongue usually means you can't use this type either because it's not strong enough
I wanted to use a WDH and I didn't want to take a chance with a surge unit so I converted my trailer to electric over hydraulic brakes.
I'll look into this the swinging tongue being strong enough for the Andersen WDH.
Very cool that you converted your trailer brakes!
bruceb58 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:59 pm
The only way to determine your truck's payload is look at the sticker inside your door jamb. I have heard those RAM VIN lookups are often wrong.
Here is a picture of a RAM TRX payload sticker I found on the Web. Hard to read but it says 1371#
B10BD038-401E-4119-9E0B-4CC6FA07B053.jpeg
Below is a pic of the payload sticker on my truck. It align within one lbs. of the RAM VIN lookup. The TRX's suspension is built for performance and is different than the 1500, thus the lbs. difference from the 1500.
bruceb58 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:19 pm
BTW....the reason I opted for a WDH is that my 2018 F150 hitch is dead weight rated for 500# tongue and 5000# capacity. My tongue weight is 600#. The truck also drives much better with the WDH installed...way less front wheel wander.
This is my hitch rating sticker on my 2018 F150 with Max Tow package.
PXL_20230112_032513857.jpg
Unfortunately, I don't have a similar sticker on my truck. I wish that I did.