My First Haul Out and Tow

[cmattj]

I bet the Hemi gets 7 mpg towing. On a good day.

- Mark

10 easy. She's a beast! HEMI?
Just for Matt

Everyone loves a Hemi....

[mdadgar]

I could get anywhere from 8-12 with my escalade. Depending on wind direction and how fast and hard I wanted to pull.

To be fair, the boat is a lot more aerodynamic that a big box race trailer.

On the other hand, I live in CA so we are limited to 55 towing (55ish, more like ).

- Mark

[rrfisher]

Not a bad first experience at all!

Regarding the truck, you'd never want the transmission to get into the upper gears, you'll burn it up for sure. Low to mid range is perfect for hauling. Yes, it'll use more fuel, but it's WAY less than the overkill a diesel would be on a boat that size.

From my experience, I'll respectfully disagree. I show jumped horses for years and regularly towed a 2 horse gooseneck that was about 30' long and about 6,500 lbs fully loaded. In 2004, I was about to switch from a bumper pull to the gooseneck (safety on icy roads and more storage) and as a test, I hooked up a fully loaded trailer to a gas-powered Dodge and then a 2500 equipped with a Cummins diesel. The 2500 was overkill for my purposes, but a diesel option wasn't available in a 1/2 ton truck at the time.

What I found at the time was the gas engine refused to shift into its top gear (at that time a 4 speed) at typical cruising speeds of 60 - 65 MPH. It would upshift at 75 MPH, but that was much too fast a speed for hauling horses. The diesel was perfect. It cruised in top gear at 60 MPH, turning around 1,300 RPM and got close to 28 MPG. And it was perfect for towing into a headwind. In the case of the same truck with a gas engine, the truck wouldn't shift into top gear and if it did momentarily, it would "bog" and then need to downshift. The problem is, many gas engines just don't produce enough torque in the low engine speeds (1,200 - 1,500) and require high RPMs to produce torque. That is what makes them suck so much gas when pulling a load.

If I end up with a truck in the spring, it will either be a 2019 Ford 150 with the new Duramax diesel or the Dodge Ram 1500 with the soon to be reintroduced diesel option. These trucks boast close to 30 mpg (empty) on the highway and 22 in the city, which is better than our mini van's consumption.

I think diesel is a win-win for towing if you want good towing capacity and good fuel economy. A gas engine can deliver (good pulling), but not in combination with good fuel economy.

Respectively the additional mpg for the diesel is offset by the increase cost of diesel. What you need is the 3.5 ecoboost. I get max torque from 1800-2900 rpm (6 speed) and I get 11 mpg pulling a 5500lb boat and truck fully loaded through the hills of central Texas. Then add a tune and now you will have a stump puller as well.

[NautiGirl]

Respectively the additional mpg for the diesel is offset by the increase cost of diesel. What you need is the 3.5 ecoboost. I get max torque from 1800-2900 rpm (6 speed) and I get 11 mpg pulling a 5500lb boat and truck fully loaded through the hills of central Texas. Then add a tune and now you will have a stump puller as well.

I tried to tell him...unless you are towing more than say ~7,000lbs the 3.5 Eco is hard to beat, and really that limit is more the suspension of the truck than the engine. To put it in perspective the EcoBoost makes more torque than the gas 6.2L V8 Ford is currently putting in the F250.

If you are towing heavy all day every day buy a PowerStroke and be done with it. If you are pulling a boat out once or twice a weekend then the F150 is hard to beat. Hell BobRay I would even look at the F150 /w the 2.7L EcoBoost. Its max towing is around 8,000lbs which is perfect for what you need. Guy at work has one and is getting 26MPG unloaded on the highway. To compare my 3.5 gets right at 20.

Yes your gas mileage will drop to 10ish when you are pulling the boat, but the savings you will see over a diesel truck when you are driving around empty will more than make up for it. Keep in mind the 3.0L PowerStroke in the F150 is a $4,000 option, thats a lot of money to make up via better mpg while towing.

[whitelightning]

One thing I really like about pulling with my D-Max, besides over 600 lb/ft of torque and better than average MPH through the Ozark mountains is the overall weight of the truck. My truck goes over 8000 lbs and along with that comes larger brakes and a heavier suspension. It's not all about power but the weight of the truck and how everything is heavier built in a 2500 HD. I guess I feel a little safer having a beefier truck in front of a heavy boat and trailer. I could not go back to towing with a 1500 after owning this unit for several years.

[Tuscany]

I’m a HD truck owner for the last 20 years. I like power, I like a rear suspension that doesn’t turn to mush when tongue weight is applied, and I love brakes.
I think the new small diesels will get decent mileage, but may highly disappoint when towing. Given the success of the small but powerful and efficient eco-boost v6 engines from Ford, and in the pipeline for GM, I’m not seeing any advantage for a small diesel, except a couple more Mpg for the 4K option. I’m not sure where any value lies...
You need cubic inches to make low rpm torque. My gasser GMC makes about 350 or so pounds of torque, which is still more than the new small diesels. Yeah, it tows ok, but compared to my old Powerstroke, it’s a freaking dog. I’m counting the days for a 2020 F-350 PSD with the new 10 speed.

[NautiGirl]

One thing I really like about pulling with my D-Max, besides over 600 lb/ft of torque and better than average MPH through the Ozark mountains is the overall weight of the truck. My truck goes over 8000 lbs and along with that comes larger brakes and a heavier suspension. It's not all about power but the weight of the truck and how everything is heavier built in a 2500 HD. I guess I feel a little safer having a beefier truck in front of a heavy boat and trailer. I could not go back to towing with a 1500 after owning this unit for several years.

Ford is borderline crazy /w some of the tow ratings on the F150. Most people on the Ford Forums agree that around 7,000 is the top end for what you want to put behind a 1/2 Ton Truck. I tend to agree. If we were towing the boat back and forth every weekend, a 300 mile trip, I would totally have an F250 /w a PowerStroke.

[NautiGirl]

I think the new small diesels will get decent mileage, but may highly disappoint when towing. Given the success of the small but powerful and efficient eco-boost v6 engines from Ford, and in the pipeline for GM, I’m not seeing any advantage for a small diesel, except a couple more Mpg for the 4K option. I’m not sure where any value lies...

It's real value would be to someone who tows around 5,000lbs over a ton of miles. That's light enough that the smaller PowerStroke would be ok towing it, and over a ton of miles you could see some real fuel savings over the EcoBoost.

The guys on TheFastLaneTruck put 7,000lbs behind a 3.5 EcoBoost and a Dodge EcoDiesel. The EcoBoost pulled it better but also got 9.3MPG doing it. The EcoDiesel was at 13.5ish MPG.

Now you can say that on average diesel is more expensive than gas and that makes up the difference in MPG, but there is a catch. The dirty secret that Ford doesn't advertise is that while they don't REQUIRE 93 Octane all the published HP and Torque Numbers on the EcoBoost's are measured with the engine running on 93. Ford also recommends running 93 when towing. When you compare the price of 93 octane to Diesel they usually line up pretty well.

Comes down to personal preference, but I tend to agree that a lot of people say "oh my God a diesel in a F150 its going to pull like a big boy PowerStroke" when in fact they are two very different power plants designed for very different things.

[rrfisher]

Now you can say that on average diesel is more expensive than gas and that makes up the difference in MPG, but there is a catch. The dirty secret that Ford doesn't advertise is that while they don't REQUIRE 93 Octane all the published HP and Torque Numbers on the EcoBoost's are measured with the engine running on 93. Ford also recommends running 93 when towing. When you compare the price of 93 octane to Diesel they usually line up pretty well.

Routine Maintenance on a diesel is also much more expensive than a gasser.

[NautiGirl]

Now you can say that on average diesel is more expensive than gas and that makes up the difference in MPG, but there is a catch. The dirty secret that Ford doesn't advertise is that while they don't REQUIRE 93 Octane all the published HP and Torque Numbers on the EcoBoost's are measured with the engine running on 93. Ford also recommends running 93 when towing. When you compare the price of 93 octane to Diesel they usually line up pretty well.

Routine Maintenance on a diesel is also much more expensive than a gasser.

True - and also the small added expense of DEF. Part of the higher maintenance cost is the fact that the 6.7L is a big engine /w large fluid capacities like say 13 quarts of oil per change, the 3.0 is closer to 8. Be interesting to see how the annual maintenance costs of the 3.0 Line up.

[BobRae99]

Now you can say that on average diesel is more expensive than gas and that makes up the difference in MPG, but there is a catch. The dirty secret that Ford doesn't advertise is that while they don't REQUIRE 93 Octane all the published HP and Torque Numbers on the EcoBoost's are measured with the engine running on 93. Ford also recommends running 93 when towing. When you compare the price of 93 octane to Diesel they usually line up pretty well.

Routine Maintenance on a diesel is also much more expensive than a gasser.

True - and also the small added expense of DEF. Part of the higher maintenance cost is the fact that the 6.7L is a big engine /w large fluid capacities like say 13 quarts of oil per change, the 3.0 is closer to 8. Be interesting to see how the annual maintenance costs of the 3.0 Line up.

My last diesel was a 2004 Dodge 2500. I had the truck for 4 years and did 4 oil changes and no other scheduled maintenance. There was no DEF in those days though. The new Dodge 1500 I had a couple of weeks ago required mid grade with premium recommended for towing. In Canada that makes the gas engine more costly to fuel than the diesel one. I guess I just like the way diesel pulls. Maybe it was the horse thing. Pulling live animals, the diesel's low-end torque and flat torque curve meant no jerking the horse trailer on acceleration - I guess that doesn't matter with a boat.

[NautiGirl]

Routine Maintenance on a diesel is also much more expensive than a gasser.

True - and also the small added expense of DEF. Part of the higher maintenance cost is the fact that the 6.7L is a big engine /w large fluid capacities like say 13 quarts of oil per change, the 3.0 is closer to 8. Be interesting to see how the annual maintenance costs of the 3.0 Line up.

My last diesel was a 2004 Dodge 2500. I had the truck for 4 years and did 4 oil changes and no other scheduled maintenance. There was no DEF in those days though. The new Dodge 1500 I had a couple of weeks ago required mid grade with premium recommended for towing. In Canada that makes the gas engine more costly to fuel than the diesel one. I guess I just like the way diesel pulls. Maybe it was the horse thing. Pulling live animals, the diesel's low-end torque and flat torque curve meant no jerking the horse trailer on acceleration - I guess that doesn't matter with a boat.

I get it, just don't sleep on the new Direct Injection Turbo Gas Engines. Take a look at the 3.5 Eco Torque Curve - yes it starts a bit later than a diesel - but thats pretty damn flat from 1,500 all the way to 5,000.

Ecoboostvs62vs50-HP-Torque.png

[mdadgar]

Respectively the additional mpg for the diesel is offset by the increase cost of diesel.

It really depends on where you live. Diesel is generally a 30% mileage bump over gas, but where I live (SF Bay Area) diesel costs about the same as super unleaded so it's still a pretty big win. As long as diesel is not 30% more expensive than gas, you're ahead.

That doesn't account for the increased purchase price of the diesel drivetrain, of course. But it also doesn't account for how pleasant it is to tow with diesel - lots of torque at low rpms, nice and quiet.

DEF is super cheap. 2.5 gallons is about $12. My GL350 holds 8 gallons and that lasts about 10K miles.

- Mark

[BobRae99]

True - and also the small added expense of DEF. Part of the higher maintenance cost is the fact that the 6.7L is a big engine /w large fluid capacities like say 13 quarts of oil per change, the 3.0 is closer to 8. Be interesting to see how the annual maintenance costs of the 3.0 Line up.

My last diesel was a 2004 Dodge 2500. I had the truck for 4 years and did 4 oil changes and no other scheduled maintenance. There was no DEF in those days though. The new Dodge 1500 I had a couple of weeks ago required mid grade with premium recommended for towing. In Canada that makes the gas engine more costly to fuel than the diesel one. I guess I just like the way diesel pulls. Maybe it was the horse thing. Pulling live animals, the diesel's low-end torque and flat torque curve meant no jerking the horse trailer on acceleration - I guess that doesn't matter with a boat.

I get it, just don't sleep on the new Direct Injection Turbo Gas Engines. Take a look at the 3.5 Eco Torque Curve - yes it starts a bit later than a diesel - but thats pretty damn flat from 1,500 all the way to 5,000.

Ecoboostvs62vs50-HP-Torque.png

No question the EB has a torque curve similar to a diesel engine, but the question is what is fuel economy like? I've read in real-world testing, it uses about the same amount of fuel as its V8 cousin. If I buy a truck, I'll definitely go diesel, the only caveat is if it is unable to produce heat as rapidly as a gas engine model. My 2004 wouldn't throw heat in -25C weather unless it was pulling a trailer.

[NautiGirl]

My last diesel was a 2004 Dodge 2500. I had the truck for 4 years and did 4 oil changes and no other scheduled maintenance. There was no DEF in those days though. The new Dodge 1500 I had a couple of weeks ago required mid grade with premium recommended for towing. In Canada that makes the gas engine more costly to fuel than the diesel one. I guess I just like the way diesel pulls. Maybe it was the horse thing. Pulling live animals, the diesel's low-end torque and flat torque curve meant no jerking the horse trailer on acceleration - I guess that doesn't matter with a boat.

I get it, just don't sleep on the new Direct Injection Turbo Gas Engines. Take a look at the 3.5 Eco Torque Curve - yes it starts a bit later than a diesel - but thats pretty damn flat from 1,500 all the way to 5,000.

Ecoboostvs62vs50-HP-Torque.png

No question the EB has a torque curve similar to a diesel engine, but the question is what is fuel economy like? I've read in real-world testing, it uses about the same amount of fuel as its V8 cousin. If I buy a truck, I'll definitely go diesel, the only caveat is if it is unable to produce heat as rapidly as a gas engine model. My 2004 wouldn't throw heat in -25C weather unless it was pulling a trailer.

3.5 Eco which is the torque curve your saw above in my truck gets 17 - 18MPG mixed use highway/city. Driving 2 hours to the lake I will see 20 or 21. Mine has the older 6 speed, but I have a buddy that has the 10 speed and he gets about 1 extra MPG compared to me. A co-worker just bought a 2.7 EcoBoost truck and he is seeing 26 - 28MPG. If all you plan to tow is your boat and you are not going to upgrade to an R series the 2.7 would be a great option.

Guys pulling huge travel trailers /w giant frontal area's are seeing 10ish MPG while pulling. We have not towed our boat more than maybe 10 miles at a time but it drops to around 12 or 13 with the boat behind it.

The 3.5 does get similar numbers in the real world as compared to the V8. Where the EcoBoost wins in my opinion is towing experience. Ford designed the engine from the ground up to be a truck engine and make a ton of torque down low. The 5.0 while also a rock solid engine was originally designed to be in the Mustang and then was added as an option to the F150.

We pull our boat up a 6% grade from a dead stop and the RPM's never go over 2,500RPM, the V8 would be screaming at 4k or so to make enough torque to get up the hill. If you just want a diesel to have a diesel then go buy a 3/4 Ton truck and enjoy it. The new Ford's have an optional cabin heater to help /w the cold mornings.

If you are staying /w a 1/2 Ton truck you really owe it to yourself to at least drive the EcoBoost, I think you would be surprised.