Tower Speaker Help

[jeffmeag]

Uh oh, sounds like i may be getting in over my head now. I can try to trace each speaker wire to see the color, should be ok with that. How do I find where the tower and transom speakers connect, as it seems by what you said, the 6 cockpit speakers and the sub are the only ones on the amps?

Also, if I replace with two 6 channels, i.e. JL M600/6, could i use all the existing wires in the same places with the exception of adding the two sets of speakers not shown (believed to be transom and tower), including leaving the amp bridged? I checked the amp owner manual and it says the "speaker outputs are designed to accept 16 AWG - 8 AWG wire." I really don't want to get into pulling all new speaker wires if I can avoid it.

[Big Block Power]

Uh oh, sounds like i may be getting in over my head now. I can try to trace each speaker wire to see the color, should be ok with that. How do I find where the tower and transom speakers connect, as it seems by what you said, the 6 cockpit speakers and the sub are the only ones on the amps?

Also, if I replace with two 6 channels, i.e. JL M600/6, could i use all the existing wires in the same places with the exception of adding the two sets of speakers not shown (believed to be transom and tower), including leaving the amp bridged? I checked the amp owner manual and it says the "speaker outputs are designed to accept 16 AWG - 8 AWG wire." I really don't want to get into pulling all new speaker wires if I can avoid it.

The speaker wires are ok guage wise. Norm we run 12g. It's the pwr and grd wires that are the issue. But it sirens like you listen to it like my wife. It's when you get it cranking is when you really need the larger guage wire. That's when the amp can shut down because of that. It also effects the quality of the sound. Can you and I hear the diff? Maybe maybe not. Ok
Here is the issue both Jeff and I are seeing. They prob tied your frt bow speakers to the frt cockpit speakers. Turn your radio on and see what happens when you fade the fader. What that does is prob changed the resistance of the speakers that are tied together for those pairs. Second where can you find the tower wires yep. They are in the gunwale Somewhere. I don't know the R series at all. But if you can take down that divider that the amps mount to and gain access to those wires and the back of the head unit you will find them. They are labeled. Unless you can see them without taking anything down. Again I have no idea how your system is set up. I believe that is your sub wires that are bridged at the amp. Disconnect one wire and see if it turns off. This is what they want for a power and grd wire. So frustrating Cobalt doesn't follow this. I think Jeff and I ran 2 guage? I don't want you to spike your amp but you can remove 1 speaker wire at the amp to tell which speaker it is running. Then label it. I don't want to damage your amp though. If it arcs it can damage it.

[jeffmeag]

BBP, sorry, I misunderstood about the wire gauge, and now see from you previous post you mentioned power and ground and I missed it, only thinking about speaker wire. I do want the system to sound good and run properly, but you are right, we really don't need it to crank up a ton. Usually someone wants it turned up and then someone else starts talking and we have to turn it back down. On our lake, we don't really have a cove where we can "crank it up" without bothering others.

For testing, if I disconnect one speaker wire at a time at the amp (possibly shutting power down when disconnecting/connecting to avoid arc) I should be able to isolate each set and like you mentioned, label them. I should also be able to identify which sets are tied together, as i understand it there are likely four sets tied together? If I isolate the two and separate them from the ones they are tied too, I would then need an amp to power those as well? I mentioned earlier two 6 channels, but I guess it would be just as easy to add one 8 channel and keep one 4?

Finding where they are tied together is likely the chore. The head unit is in the head mounted near the floor under a ledge....not convenient at all. There is a wired RF remote on the dash. Pretty easy access under the dash to where the "wall" that the amps are mounted too. I'll start looking and see if I can figure any of this out. Will then have to decide how to fix it.

[Big Block Power]

Yep your on the right trail. Don't forget to listen to those tower speakers they are tied into something also. If you don't get them to stop working then they are coming off the head unit. Did you play with all of the zone and balance and fade options on the rf remote? I think you can use a 8 channel jl amp. I haven't looked into the specs too much on it lately. I looked at it when I was doing mine. Cobalt has been using 10 guage wires before mine. You will be fine it's just not ideal.

[jeffmeag]

I haven’t played with the fade/balance, etc yet but will do that when I start checking the speaker wires. I will definitely pay attention to the towers as that is really my main issue. If they are powered out of the head unit, would that account for such a lack of power coming from them?

Even if the bow’s are tied to the fronts, or something similar, all the other speakers seem as though they have plenty of power, just not the towers. I have to put my ear in front of them to even tell if they are on, drowned out by the rear cockpit speakers.

Seems like if I can get it figured out, the 8 channel may be the best route, not having to replace both.

[Chrispval]

I feel like someone stole an amp from you. No way cobalt produced a boat with tower speakers with 2 4 channel amps. Use the fader to determine what is what. What powers your sub?

[jeffmeag]

Lol, Chris, is does feel that way. It came from the dealer like this. But to be honest, that dealer has closed down after having their dealership pulled by Cobalt for doing some "creative" things with trades and financing......

I'm actually starting to wonder if the dealer installed these "Samson" tower speakers and acted like they were factory? But, with BBP's comments on how they used to do audio installations, maybe it did come from the factory like this? If the towers are aftermarket, Cobalt still missed by at least on channel, having to tie something together.

Unknown on the sub power, however, BBP believes it is bridged on the amp, and something is, just don't know what yet. I'll have to check and see.

[NautiGirl]

Lol, "where is the rest"...I have no idea

Do you have a suggestion as to where the rest is and/or how this "should" be wired? Dealer is new, have not worked with them yet...and of course, they are closed during all this. Don't ask about the old dealer, it's a long story.

Outside of taking it to the dealer and asking if it is covered by warranty, any thoughts on what to do with this next? Is there anyway that I can make it better?

You're not going to like my answer, but I can only give you the advice on what I would do if it was my boat. First cobalt did you no favors, and what really sucks the price difference between half assing it the way they did and doing it the right way is a few hundred bucks.

So here is what is going on. You have two four channel amps for a total of 8 discrete speaker channels. Two of those channels are being bridged, those are the gold wires, and providing two channels of power to the sub. Thats fine, its how I wired my boat and isnt a big deal. The problem is 8 channels minus the 2 for the sub leaves you with 6 channels to power the other 10 speakers on the boat.

On ours cobalt wired the bow speakers and the tower speakers together which means they were both getting half the power they should. The only way I ever figured this out was by disconnecting wires at the amp and then seeing what speakers turned off. I started to dig through the cobalt factory speaker wiring and quickly gave up, it was a total mess.

If it was my boat I would run all new speaker wire to everything and then add amps to provide every speaker a discrete audio channel. It's what we did, its what BBP did, it takes some time but in the end its totally worth it. I haven't run wires in a new R5, but on our boat there was plenty of room to run wires down the sides of the boat. We just left the factory wire there didnt pull it out or anything.

Yes its a pain and yes cobalt should have done it right from the factory, but once you wire it right the improvement in sound is amazing.

[NautiGirl]

I feel like someone stole an amp from you. No way cobalt produced a boat with tower speakers with 2 4 channel amps. Use the fader to determine what is what. What powers your sub?

Amazing right? The sub is the two gold wires on the amp, cobalt then combined a few of the other speakers so they shared the remaining 6 amp channels. Did the same thing on our boat, and BBP's boat, and I think Tim's old 262. They have gotten better about it since Malibu took over, and no longer wire them this way, but back in the day it was pretty common. On our 2007 they also didnt use marine grade amps so the entire underside was rusted when I pulled them out. Most stereo shops around here just go in knowing they will have to rip everything out and start over.

They also have a nasty habit of using way undersized power wires for the amps, but thats a discussion for another day.

[Chrispval]

The cheapest option is probably adding an m1000 amp. Run all your cockpit and transom speakers off the exisiting 4 channel amps. They are perfect designed for just that. Then power your sub with the m1000, and add a 2nd pair of towers. Keep the samsons, why not. I did check the brochure for 2017, and the wss series are the only ones that show pictures of tower speakers installed. And you are right, all are cheap samsons. They didnt start using thr JL 8’s on their towers till 2018.

[NautiGirl]

The cheapest option is probably adding an m1000 amp. Run all your cockpit and transom speakers off the exisiting 4 channel amps. They are perfect designed for just that. Then power your sub with the m1000, and add a 2nd pair of towers. Keep the samsons, why not. I did check the brochure for 2017, and the wss series are the only ones that show pictures of tower speakers installed. And you are right, all are cheap samsons. They didnt start using thr JL 8’s on their towers till 2018.

Yup, adding the bigger amp or an additional amp is part of the solution, but you still have to run all new speaker wire to everything to take advantage of the additional amp channels. Other issue is at least on our boat cobalt cheaped out on power and ground wires for the amp. It was all 8GA. The M1000 will required at least 4GA if not 2GA.

Basically the best option is to re-run all the speaker wire then figure out a plan for the amps.

[Big Block Power]

The cheapest option is probably adding an m1000 amp. Run all your cockpit and transom speakers off the exisiting 4 channel amps. They are perfect designed for just that. Then power your sub with the m1000, and add a 2nd pair of towers. Keep the samsons, why not. I did check the brochure for 2017, and the wss series are the only ones that show pictures of tower speakers installed. And you are right, all are cheap samsons. They didnt start using thr JL 8’s on their towers till 2018.

Are you taking the m1000 5 channel amp?
That's a confusing amp. It's running diff filters on diff channels.
Well let's see if we can track Down the speakers and they're wires.

[jeffmeag]

BBP, thanks for the catch....I really need to keep things simple. Mr. Nauti, thanks for your input and for making it easier to understand. Chris, great idea on keeping the Sampson's and adding additional's, could be really great. I do want to know what the Sampson's sound like fully powered before i decide on towers.

All, just curious, because I don't know and am trying to keep this somewhat simple, if i can isolate all of the speakers and "undo" the ones tied together, add a 8 channel amp (using the currently run wires) and not replace speaker wire/power wires....for the sake of keeping it simple (kiss, with the emphasis on the last s) would this work sufficiently?

As much as it would be fun to completely and properly run this by replacing all wires, adding a giant amp and additional tower speakers, this is way to much for me to tackle. If my only option is that, I may leave it as is or I have to take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

I really appreciate everyones input, it's taken a lot of my time and I am grateful for you guys taking your time.

[NautiGirl]

The cheapest option is probably adding an m1000 amp. Run all your cockpit and transom speakers off the exisiting 4 channel amps. They are perfect designed for just that. Then power your sub with the m1000, and add a 2nd pair of towers. Keep the samsons, why not. I did check the brochure for 2017, and the wss series are the only ones that show pictures of tower speakers installed. And you are right, all are cheap samsons. They didnt start using thr JL 8’s on their towers till 2018.

Are you taking the m1000 5 channel amp?
That's a confusing amp. It's running diff filters on diff channels.
Well let's see if we can track Down the speakers and they're wires.

Come on its not that confusing, its 4 channels 75 watts each for speakers one channel 600 watts for a sub. So yeah different settings for the 4 channels vs the 1. Not horrible to setup promise.

[NautiGirl]

BBP, thanks for the catch....I really need to keep things simple. Mr. Nauti, thanks for your input and for making it easier to understand. Chris, great idea on keeping the Sampson's and adding additional's, could be really great. I do want to know what the Sampson's sound like fully powered before i decide on towers.

All, just curious, because I don't know and am trying to keep this somewhat simple, if i can isolate all of the speakers and "undo" the ones tied together, add a 8 channel amp (using the currently run wires) and not replace speaker wire/power wires....for the sake of keeping it simple (kiss, with the emphasis on the last s) would this work sufficiently?

As much as it would be fun to completely and properly run this by replacing all wires, adding a giant amp and additional tower speakers, this is way to much for me to tackle. If my only option is that, I may leave it as is or I have to take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

I really appreciate everyones input, it's taken a lot of my time and I am grateful for you guys taking your time.

I tried to do just that, but I gave up trying to trace the factory wiring. I wish I had kept pics of the crazy wiring harness splicing I pulled out of ours, just stupid how cobalt took something so easy and made it so hard. It was easier to just bite the bullet and run new course ours was a 2007 I have never looked that closely at the wiring in a 15. i did re-use the factory tower wiring, because I wasnt about to fish wires up the tower other than that all new.

The good news is those two JL amps you have are a solid start. I would use those to power all the in boats and the towers 8 speakers 8 channels everyone gets 75 watts. Perfect.

I would then buy a M500/3 for the sub and the transom speakers. Transom Speakers get 75 watts each Sub gets the same 300 watts it getting now. Perfect.

That lets you continue to use the amps you have and provide good power to everything with no one sharing. See not bad, it's just adding a single amp.........and running all new speaker wire

It sucks, I know, but it's worth it. We are not the loudest boat on the lake but we can hold our own. More important, it's amazing how much clearer everything sounds when its property amplified.