2016 Cobalt 210 or 220S? Power Options?

[ColinC]

BR99,

By way of background, I live in Toronto and imported my Cobalt from Texas last summer. Having imported other vehicles from the U.S. in the past (SUV, RV), I have some experience on this front and I believe the guidance you've received is not entirely accurate. Here is the process for Ontario:

1. Enter into agreement to buy boat. Don't worry about negotiating the boat and trailer separately. It's a paperwork exercise. Figure out what you want to pay in total and then get a reasonable amount of the total purchase price allocated to the trailer. In my case the sale agreement was one document with a separate assigned value to the boat and trailer, with each VIN / HIN documented.
2. Put deposit on boat. I'd suggest using transferwise to wire the funds. Unless you have an existing source of USD, you likely won't find a cheaper solution for buying and wiring USD.
3. Sort out any sort of survey or contingent inspection issues. I bought my boat from an approved Cobalt service provider and took the risk of going without a survey. I've had zero issues, but understand why someone might have concerns and do some additional diligence. As they say, buyer beware. That said, buying from a Cobalt dealer is likely far lower risk given the brand reputation that they look to protect and maintain.
4. Arrange transport. This is far easier than you might think. Many of us have used uShip with success. I used a gent that BBP recommended and had zero issues.
5. Arrange insurance. Again, this is very straightforward. Call your insurance company and get a binder over the phone. That's all that is required, though you will want to make mention that the vessel is in the US and being shipped to Canada. This step is the same for a boat purchased in Canada.
6. Secure temporary tag for trailer. Your transporter may do this, or the seller, but the trailer needs a temp tag. I bought a Texas tag for 30 days for approximately $20. Did it online and sent the transporter the tag as it is a PDF that you print off and tape to a window on the back of the tow vehicle.
7. Call the trailer manufacturer and have them send you a recall clearance letter. They do it all the time. Took one phone call and had mine via PDF the same day. You will need this to import the trailer.
8. Make final payment and have original title sent via courier to your home. Have seller provide a copy of the title (marked as copy) to the transporter. Provide proof of insurance (binder / policy #) to transporter.
9. Have boat shipped to nearest US / Canada border crossing. Meet the transporter on the US side at a Walmart or other convenient location. This will save you money as many individuals think that the import / export process is a hassle. It isn't!!!
10. Inspect the boat and pay transporter.
11. Cross the border and check in with Canada Customs. You are not required to send the title documents to the border crossing 48 hours in advance. That applies to cars. It does not apply to boats or boat trailers. When you are at the border you will declare that you're importing the boat and trailer and then be instructed to pay HST. Go inside and pay your HST, based on the actual bill of sale converted to CDN dollars. Pay the RIV (registrar of imported vehicles) fee. Then off you go. It took me less than 5 minutes.
12. Register your boat prior to putting it in the water. It's an online process with Transport Canada. Doesn't cost a penny and takes about 10 minutes. You will immediately get your vessel registration number that you will have to place on your hull. This step is the same for a boat purchased in Canada.
13. Register your trailer. After crossing the border you will receive a notice from RIV that you can get your trailer inspected at any Canadian Tire across the country. Call ahead and book an appointment. Takes less than 30 minutes and there are mechanical or lighting issues. You will receive an approved form that you can then take to the Ministry of Transport, along with proof of insurance, to obtain your trailer license plate and registration. You will also receive a sticker from RIV that is to be placed on the trailer.

All this sounds like a hassle, but it really isn't.

While I'm not always in the camp of 'no replacement for displacement', I would suggest you look at torque curves and not strictly HP numbers. Torque is what you need for watersports and moving a boat full of people. The V6 options may be perfect, but you want to confirm that 100% before you buy. It is very expensive to trade off a boat just to get a power upgrade. In fact, underpowered boats are difficult to re-sell as used buyers often lean toward boats that are properly powered. FWIW you may want to get your dealer's trade-in perspective in writing.

With respect to going with a cheap trailer, that can work well if you plan to keep the boat for some time and will be using it strictly for storage and short trips. However, if you plan to take explore lakes in other areas and do more towing, it may be shortsighted. Putting a premium boat on a discount trailer can lead to a variety of issues, sooner than you might think. For example, cheap trailers often come with cheap tires (and no spare), cheap winches, cheap tongue jacks -- many of which can impact the safety of your boat, your family and others on the road. Lastly, when you go to trade a premium boat with a discount trailer, your trade-in value will reflect this decision as buyers prefer custom-matched premium trailers.

Hope this helps! Feel free to PM too -- I'm happy to help walk you through the import process if you go with a US-based boat.

[ColinC]

On a somewhat related note, and not to make you head spin even more, if your plan is to possibly trade-up in two years, there is a strategy that could reduce your total cost of ownership, including exposure to depreciation.

The market for used Cobalts in southern Ontario, particularly in Muskoka is quite strong. For example, a 2007 Cobalt 200 with a 5.0L v8 Mercruiser B3 with ~ 700 hours on it and no trailer is listed at $35,900. It won't sell for that, but that same boat on a trailer is likely under $25K USD. You could easily buy a low hour used Cobalt out of the US and trade it in on a new one at Walkers Point Marina in two years. My guess is that you would take almost no depreciation hit. In fact, you might turn a profit!

If the Canadian dollar ever gets back to par with the US, I'll be importing Cobalts to re-market in the GTA faster than BBP can recondition them!

[ColinC]

Here's an example of a boat that could be a good two year option...

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/boa/ ... 20728.html

[BobRae99]

On a somewhat related note, and not to make you head spin even more, if your plan is to possibly trade-up in two years, there is a strategy that could reduce your total cost of ownership, including exposure to depreciation.

The market for used Cobalts in southern Ontario, particularly in Muskoka is quite strong. For example, a 2007 Cobalt 200 with a 5.0L v8 Mercruiser B3 with ~ 700 hours on it and no trailer is listed at $35,900. It won't sell for that, but that same boat on a trailer is likely under $25K USD. You could easily buy a low hour used Cobalt out of the US and trade it in on a new one at Walkers Point Marina in two years. My guess is that you would take almost no depreciation hit. In fact, you might turn a profit!

If the Canadian dollar ever gets back to par with the US, I'll be importing Cobalts to re-market in the GTA faster than BBP can recondition them!

Thanks for your perspective and advice.

I appreciate that the importation process is not difficult and I have a broker doing my business import work from the US and China who would handle the transaction. I was just pointing out that it is more time and effort than just getting a boat from a local dealer.

I'm not sure whether a 210 with a V6/280 would qualify as "underpowered". If it does, then 3/4's of the new and used Cobalt 210/220S I've seen advertised - both new and used, are underpowered. I can't believe Cobalt dealers can remain successful selling that configuration if the majority of customers come back unhappy after the first ride on the lake with their new boats - but what do I know??

I looked at the torque output between the V6/280 and V8/300. The V8 has almost 100 lb ft more torque at 1,800 RPM and it maintains at least 50 lb ft over the V6 at 4,000 RPM. That is a significant difference coming off idle, yet Cobalt's published performance numbers show a time to plane difference between the two engines at .6 seconds and a top speed difference of 3 mp/h. I don't know what to make of that.

I'm sure the 210 if bought right would trade or sell in Ontario at a good used price given what you say about the Muskoka region, especially given that I can't find a good recent 210 for sale anywhere in Canada and the next option is a more expensive 220S. As to cashing in by bringing boats up to Canada when the $CAD reaches par (if it does), keep in mind that any boat you own at that time will have lost considerable value.

I have an offer in on a new 2 model year old 210 V6/280 with a few options. I'm in the $55,000 CAD range and just have to get the trailer into the deal.

The 2015 220S in AR with low hours, it turns out, doesn't include a trailer at the asking. I didn't notice that in the listing when I first read it. I've spoken to the dealer and offered $46,500 including a trailer and survey and he is taking it to management. The asking is $51,900 plus trailer. I pointed out to the dealer if I build a new boat on Cobalt's site, the discounted pricing shows around $57,000 plus freight/PDI for a V8300, fender clips and dual battery. So, even though the used boat has the arch and seagrass,upgraded sound system, etc, I'd chose a new boat with the full 5 year warranty before picking up their used boat with more equipment for $5,100 less. The salesman is going to talk to management and get back to me.

I think the 2015 220 will work out if the dealer will come down to my offer price with trailer. If not, I think I'll just get the 210 locally. As you say, I can always sell it in Muskoka if it doesn't work out

[Big Block Power]

We all have different needs and wants on models and engines. They Cobalt and other manufactures offer a entry level package. Yes they sell part because they cost less.
You would jump in that boat and get all giddy driving it right away and day yep it's great. I would its new. Now a month later and then reality hits and it's not perfect. Believe me I know after having just about every engine in the old engine package avail. We are just giving you advise on the question asked and I think we are all saying v8 I think the 220 also.looking at the 212 it's allot smaller in the cabin then a 222. Like for Alaska his engine and boat package works perfect for him and his needs. That's 2 more cents from me.

[Alaskabound]

Br99, I'll chime in on 2 items. As I've said before in other posts, I did not consider the 280 Volvo until I did a sea trial. It was more than I expected, both from getting on plane to top end with2 people (50 mph). In all fairness, I have not pulled skiers yet or had a boat full of people. Hope that changes this summer. I feel like it will do great because of the duoprop but if it doesn't, I will trade up. I'm not interested in top end but would be very disappointed if I couldn't pull a skier up.

Regarding trailers, Colin gave you good advice. Of the 3 boats I had before the Cobalt, 2 had yucky trailers. My last boat I had for 11 years & had 10 times more problems with the trailer than the boat. Bearings, guides, rotted wood, etc. I even took my last trailer to the factory it was so screwed up.

The Cobalt came with a Heritage trailer with folding tongue, led lights & my favorite, Vaulted oil bath bearings that require no maintenance for 10 years. You will be glad down the road if you don't get the cheapest.

In any event, you will love the Cobalt. My wife and I went to the boat show yesterday and marveled at how we have no interest anymore in the Sea Rays, Chapparals, etc that we have owned before.

Good luck & welcome!

Dub

[BobRae99]

Update. I made an offer on the boat in AR on Wednesday and it sold to another party on Thursday. I haven't found much out there it match this boat, but I continue to look.

I spoke to someone at Cobalt who wasn't very helpful except that he suggested a 210 carrying 6 adults and pulling one adult skier would be better with the V8 and the V6/280. I think the difference is really in the torque and not the HP. Cobalt tests these boast with 1/2 tank of gas and the driver in the boat. Its a different story once you load the boat up with passengers.

The problem is, most of the boats I have found new or lightly used have the V6/280 combination. If a 220S doesn't show up used with a V8/300, I think I'll grab that new 210 V6/280 for a year or two and then sell it used in Muskoka, Ontario and move up to a 220S or R3 with the appropriate sized motor.

For the record, the advice on the AR boat I received was good. they wanted $51,900 for the boat without a trailer. I offered less with a trailer and they sold it Thursday for asking, but with a trailer. Based on what I have seen available, that was the best deal out there right now.

[Big Block Power]

Update. I made an offer on the boat in AR on Wednesday and it sold to another party on Thursday.



The problem is, most of the boats I have found new or lightly used have the V6/280 combination.

For the record, the advice on the AR boat I received was good. they wanted $51,900 for the boat without a trailer. I offered less with a trailer and they sold it Thursday for asking, but with a trailer. Based on what I have seen available, that was the best deal out there right now.

Ok right now is becoming prime boat selling time. If the deal is out there you better buy it. Two months ago yes you might have had time to put multiple offers in.

Second what is that telling you when that's all your seeing avail. People are not hanging on to them for a reason. It's not fitting there needs. I'll start to look in a bit.

[AsLan7]

Roger that BR99.
We’ll continue to keep an eye out for you.
.

[Big Block Power]

Lager Viking has one.2016 320hp

[Big Block Power]

A little older at lake of the Ozarks

[Big Block Power]

A 220 wss

[Big Block Power]

220 in lake of the Ozarks

[AsLan7]

Some nice options there for ya' BR99!

[BobRae99]

Some nice options there for ya' BR99!

Thanks Aslan. I think the first boat you posted in AR was the pick of the litter. The first boat above, is a 2009 (too old for me), the 2016 WSS - Red is equipped with a V6/280, so not the powertrain everyone is recommending. The boat in Warsaw also has a V6 (I believe - I've already seen that boat listing).

I don't know what the deal is but I came across a new 2018 220S with a list price of $81,000 this morning and when you look under the hood, guess what? yes, a V6/280 Volvo. So this is a case where the dealer could build a more lightly optioned boat for around $76,000 MSRP, but including a V8/300, yet this dealer opts for more "stuff" on the boat and the lower power engine. They must be selling these boats with that propulsion though because 95% of the new 2017's and 2018's I've come across are equipped with a Volvo V6/280 drive. I've gone through hundreds of listings of used 220s and have only found a few that are new, or low hours with a Volvo V8/300.

I'm not saying big block is wrong, but there must be a lot of unhappy Cobalt owners out there with the new generation V6/280.

I've got an offer from the dealer on the 2016 210 with that power, including trailer for $45,000USD. I think I'm going to take that boat as my starter boat. I doubt I'll lose more than $5,000 CAD ($4,000USD) in value in the first year and considering that my 2016 Sea Doo (RXT X300) has lost $7,000 CAD over the first two years if I trade it, I can accept the depreciation if I decide I need a bigger boat (and who doesn't or more power, again, who doesn't).

As to that Arkansas boat, I don't know you Aslan, but next time I'll listen to you.