Experience working overseas away from family?

[thunder550]

I work for a company that has operations around the world, one of the biggest being on the island of Papua, Indonesia. My ex-boss took a big promotion recently and moved over to a VP role over there. He's tried to recruit me twice, first was on a full-time basis where I'd move my family over there, which I was not willing to do. Late last week, he sprung a second opportunity on me. This time it would be a rotational position, where I'd go over there for 6 weeks then come back home for 3 weeks, rinse and repeat, for probably 2-3 years, at which point they would find me a position back at the corporate office here in Phoenix where I currently work. This position would be a grade higher than where I currently am, plus they give a 25% pay bump for expats. I don't have numbers yet but I'm making a semi-educated guess that between the grade increase, 25% bump, and larger bonus pool, the net would be somewhere between a 50% and 65% increase in salary. Looking beyond the 2-3 year rotational period, it would also open a lot of doors back at the home office in much shorter time than if I were to just stay here. It would be a great career move, and would put my family and I in a position where we could pay off cars quickly and save the rest for a down payment on our next home, which we have decided needs to be our "forever" home. I have been thinking that this was in the 8-10 year plan, but this job would probably bring that in to the 3-5 year timeframe instead. Basically it would be 2-3 years of travel that would set us up to be very comfortable after it was over.

The flip side, and part that I'm struggling with, is time away from home and family. 6 weeks at a time is a long time to be away, at least from my perspective where I've never been away from my wife or almost-5 year old daughter for more than about 4 days at a time. The 3 weeks at home would truly be at home, no work required. Sounds nice, except that my wife works and my daughter is in school, so the majority of that time would be me just hanging out at home by myself. There's a couple of different levels here, first I would miss them a ton and probably miss a lot of reasonably significant events, second is their life would keep on trucking so I'm worried that I'd feel like an outsider when I came home, third is that I'm a little bit worried that my daughter would feel somewhat abandoned by dad. I know kids are resilient and by the time she hit 7 or 8 years old it would be over and I'd be back home full time, but still...I'd essentially be gone for 2 out of the next 3 years.

Have any of you been in a position where you've had to be away from family for an extended period of time? What was it like, for you, kids, significant other, etc? I'm really wanting to weigh the pros and cons...sometimes some short-term sacrifice is well worth the end result, but sometimes the intangible losses far outweigh the benefits too.

[ColinC]

T550,

First off, congrats on having this opportunity to consider. Opportunities like this don't come along without hard work and talent. Given how many times your boss has approached you, it's clear you're on a great trajectory. Well done sir.

While I haven't worked overseas for an extended period of time, I do have some perspective on being away from your family. When I a was a kid my father traveled internationally. A lot. He was basically gone 1/2 the year, often for periods of 2 to 6 weeks at a time. This lasted about 15 years - from the time I was little until I went off to university. In 1979/80 he spent a full year away from home for a joint military / private sector / federal government program. For six months he was a few hundred miles away and we saw him about once a month. The next six months were spent on a plane visiting government leaders all around the world, so we didn't see him. While it was challenging for our family, and I had a good relationship with my father, there are differences. My brothers (I have two) and I are all very close to our mother -- she raised us. We had an incredibly strong bond with our grandfather, as he often stepped in to help out. He taught us to sail, play ball, etc. Our father just wasn't there for the day-to-day. And when he came home there was often tension between my parents. My dad wanted to 'relax' and be with his family. However, my mom felt that she had spent a good amount of time being a single parent and that she should have the opportunity to 'relax' instead of my dad.

That's the downside. Here's the upside. My father loved his career. It was his great life accomplishment and he has admitted many times he wouldn't change a thing. That said, he is a proud man and I doubt he would admit to me that he made a mistake raising his family. Whether he made a mistake or not is for him to determine. And let's be clear -- I had a pretty good childhood and didn't lack for food, comfort or warmth. My father worked hard to provide and made career trade-offs that many people have to make.

You're wise to be carefully contemplating this move. While I don't know your household/family circumstances, you may want to re-visit the idea of a permanent move. Going abroad as a family isn't easy, but I have many friends and relatives that have done it for 2 or 3 years (with young children) and they've found it be an incredible experience for everyone. The chance to experience a new culture for an extended period of time, learn a new language, and travel is tough to beat. Most companies allow families to do a 'check it out' trip to see what the whole family thinks before making a commitment to move. You might want to check in on that option if you haven't already.

Good luck!

Colin

[TRobert1122]

T550 -

I've always been of the opinion that you should never limit yourself in terms of career choice by being selective in the assignments you choose. Personally, international experience has been good for my career (18 years O&G), and has exposed me to places and cultures that I wouldn't have been otherwise. To me, the employer always remembers who was willing to take stretch assignments when it was needed, and the financial benefits also certainly help. Many guys I know love the extended time at home, instead of just a weekend at a time. And with technology today (FaceTime, Messenger, etc.), you never really are completely out of touch from the little ones, which helps to bridge that distance.

Ultimately, it's a personal decision for each family, but I've found that usually the pros win out over the cons. Pro - I've flown the family to Europe on business class, and purchased tickets for others, with the frequent flyer miles I'd accumulated. Con - If the marriage isn't completely solid, then maybe not for you. Also, kids grow up really fast!

Best of luck with whatever decision you make. At a minimum, some quiet time out in that 252 should put things in perspective!

Tim

[tgrace98]

I use to do a lot of government contracts at my last job which involved a lot of over seas travel. One year I did 6 weeks in Germany and another 4 weeks in Japan. In that same time it was a lot of domestic travel as well. Over a span of about 8 years I averaged about 40-45 weeks per year of travel. I didn't have any kids and wasn't married at the time so I didn't have anything holding me at home or anything I was leaving behind. I can tell you I got really burnt out after about 5 years. But the money was to good for me to leave it at the time.

So to get to the point of the story. Now that I am married no way would I ever do a job like that again. I have had to travel here and there over the past year and I don't like being away. When I traveled in the past I always felt like I was missing out. Between family events or just things in general being away for that amount of time takes a toll on your personal life. Not saying don't do it. But really think it through before you make your decision.

[Tuscany]

The only perspective I can offer is this..
My young business life started by taking over the family commercial greenhouse. My dad was 42 years older than me, so I was pretty young.
To support ourselves in the off-season, I drove over the road semi for about a few years.

I always drove top notch trucks. Pete & KW large cars. I had a ball as a younger man.
Met my wife, and every now and then, she came along.
We got married, and the fun was starting to become work, and fast..
My daughter was born, and I found myself in a deep depression every time I left town.
I need my wife and kids around me. I quickly stopped taking l9ads that kept me away, and eventually took the next step in business to make it full time.
Funny thing is that my wife and I are with each other almost 24x7x365.

Im probably no help, and not what you want to hear, but that was how my “away” experience went.

[Driller]

I have worked overseas a lot and lived overseas also. It's the nature of the beast in the oil and gas industry. Here's my 2-cents:

- Think about taking the family and moving. At least leave the opportunity open. Ask your boss if you can commute rotational for a period and then bring the family over if you think it is safe. Generally overseas jobs and countries including Indonesia are not as bad as Americans think they are. We had a number of people living in Jakarta, and most of them were very happy. You'll find there are perks there - assigned drivers, household help for the wife, etc.

-International is not the US. If you go over thinking it will be the same you will be very disappointed. Find the good, leave the bad.

- The expat community is very small no matter the country or location. Pretty soon you will know everyone from the US / Canada / UK etc. If they can speak english, then they are in the club.

-Here's some things to understand before you commit:

- How are your in-country taxes being handled. Are you paying them or is the company. Are there any strings attached to the US Foreign Tax Credits? Is your payroll US or local? These issues can make a huge difference.
- What Medical Support is provided. Are you at the mercy of the local witch doctor, or has the company contracted with private medical firms?
-Transportation - Is there a car allowance, can I even drive in the country? Does the company provide a car and driver. etc.
- If I were to relocate. How much of my stuff can be shipped and who pays the shipping? What about the stuff I put in storage who pays the storage fees (trust me, no place in a foreign country can hold all the stuff we Americans collect).
-Is there a policy concerning my home (if you own on). Is there any advantage to keeping and renting out when I am overseas, or is it better to sell?
-Who is paying for my home in-country? Is the company furnishing it or am I on my own? What will be my allowance for rent if there is one?
-Along with the bump in pay, and hardship compensation, is there any other associated benefits.

I made the decision to relocate international when I was 47. Best decision I ever made. Sold the house I owned and headed over. Came back 6 years later and paid cash for my retirement home. Was the pain worth the gain. For me and my wife it was. She is adventurous and was very happy.

IM if you want more info.

[Big Block Power]

Well
T0000055555
I came to you 6 months ago for job help so now it's your turn to come over here. Lol
Well let me know when you leave and I'll watch your scorpions for you. I know where you keep your boat and the keys so they are safe with me.lol
I think I kind of know you. And no way would I do this without your wife and daughter.
I would take them or stay here or move up through the ranks here. Your a smart guy and it won't take you long to run the company. Lol
I have a 9 year old GD that lived with us for 3 years and I missed a bunch of time after they moved out and I miss every minute of it.

I think everyone is giving you great advise. I can't wait to hear what Aslan has to say.

[thunder550]

Ok ok ok I'm not leaving. Been turning it around in my head all day. Came home and talked to my daughter for a few minutes, made me realize there's no way I can do this.

Thank you guys for some perspective and experience. We did consider the idea of moving the whole family out there, but my wife is on a good career path and is in the middle of getting her MBA, would not be fair to ask her to put that all on hold. Plus, we would not be moving to a city in Indonesia, we would be moving to a tiny company town on the side of a mountain in the middle of tribal country. Like bow and arrow and war paint tribal. 3 hour armored bus ride to the nearest thing that resembles a city.

Someone else told me today that your kids grow up quick and only once, and you can't get that time back.


---smiley faces are courtesy of my daughter BTW

IMG_20180626_185012.jpg

[Big Block Power]

I think you made the right choice. This coming Jan I'll have to talk the wife in coming out there and meeting up with the rest of your family. Your a great guy!

[AsLan7]

.
Was holding off on chiming in....now I don't have to. Great choice T550...Harry Chapin's "Cat's and the Cradle" video will not need to be posted now.

.

[Bfun220]

I think you made the right call. I passed up a job that had 60-70% travel. Would have been a great bump in pay. By passing on that job I was able to attend all but 12 of my daughters soccer games. That's from age 4 through high school. She still brags about her dad making all those games and we have a lot of shared memories.

[Ytmsn]

Thunder when I was in my 20's I passed on an opportunity to travel the world for a company. They were looking for young guys without deep roots. I didn't have a wife and family at the time but had something else here to hold me. I've often wondered what my life would be like had I made that decision... but I have no regrets.

Then I get married and we have two kids. And that's when I discovered the reason I get up every morning. My kids are grown and gone now and we're into the grandparent stage (which is an even stronger reason to get up!)

I'm pretty tight with my kids and I can't begin to imagine what it would have been like not being here for all those special moments! All those times they needed me. All those times we laughed and cried. All those times they would look to me to see if I was proud. All those times. Jeesh. They only happen once. If I was to meet you face to face, chances are I'd still recognize you in five years. But who your daughter is today will be a completely different person in a year, let alone five years. You dont want to miss that.

It's not worth the sacrifice. Riches are not measured by dollars my friend.

Nobody ever says at the end "I wish I would have worked a few more hours." The time you spend with your wife and daughter is an investment, and one of the best you will ever make.

You made the right decision!

[Ytmsn]

I have worked overseas a lot and lived overseas also. It's the nature of the beast in the oil and gas industry. Here's my 2-cents:

- Think about taking the family and moving. At least leave the opportunity open. Ask your boss if you can commute rotational for a period and then bring the family over if you think it is safe. Generally overseas jobs and countries including Indonesia are not as bad as Americans think they are. We had a number of people living in Jakarta, and most of them were very happy. You'll find there are perks there - assigned drivers, household help for the wife, etc.

-International is not the US. If you go over thinking it will be the same you will be very disappointed. Find the good, leave the bad.

- The expat community is very small no matter the country or location. Pretty soon you will know everyone from the US / Canada / UK etc. If they can speak english, then they are in the club.

-Here's some things to understand before you commit:

- How are your in-country taxes being handled. Are you paying them or is the company. Are there any strings attached to the US Foreign Tax Credits? Is your payroll US or local? These issues can make a huge difference.
- What Medical Support is provided. Are you at the mercy of the local witch doctor, or has the company contracted with private medical firms?
-Transportation - Is there a car allowance, can I even drive in the country? Does the company provide a car and driver. etc.
- If I were to relocate. How much of my stuff can be shipped and who pays the shipping? What about the stuff I put in storage who pays the storage fees (trust me, no place in a foreign country can hold all the stuff we Americans collect).
-Is there a policy concerning my home (if you own on). Is there any advantage to keeping and renting out when I am overseas, or is it better to sell?
-Who is paying for my home in-country? Is the company furnishing it or am I on my own? What will be my allowance for rent if there is one?
-Along with the bump in pay, and hardship compensation, is there any other associated benefits.

I made the decision to relocate international when I was 47. Best decision I ever made. Sold the house I owned and headed over. Came back 6 years later and paid cash for my retirement home. Was the pain worth the gain. For me and my wife it was. She is adventurous and was very happy.

IM if you want more info.

Dear Lord this is good. So good in fact, I copied and pasted into my notes. Good stuff Driller, and things I never would have even thought about. If one if my kids are ever facing an overseas decision I'll pull this out!

[NautiGirl]

Choosing family is never the wrong decision. Glad it was an easy decision for you... It's easy to get caught up with the idea of more... But you already have more sitting with you on the couch there!

[ajcampen]

Easy choice with the crap location they wanted to send you. It would be like being asked to move to Detroit